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TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Posted by Nick B. on 26 August 2002, 05:52 GMT

OS 1.15 has magically become available for the 83+. We're told that this version adds two features: TI-keyboard support and improved support for the CBL2 on the Silver Edition.

If either of these things apply to you, or you complusively need the latest and greatest thing, visit the TI store and select the appropiate subsection.

 


The comments below are written by ticalc.org visitors. Their views are not necessarily those of ticalc.org, and ticalc.org takes no responsibility for their content.


Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Konstantin Beliakov  Account Info
(Web Page)

ehem...first post :)
anyways, i'd get the latest update for my 83+ even tho i almost don't use it after i got my 89. it'd be cool to have clock on an 83+ like on 89/92 after the new AMS!

     26 August 2002, 06:10 GMT

Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Pemberton  Account Info
(Web Page)

it would be cool, but it's not going to happen.

     26 August 2002, 06:25 GMT

Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
bogus ti productions  Account Info
(Web Page)

:(

     26 August 2002, 13:51 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Rayzer  Account Info

*<.'^b><

     27 August 2002, 00:01 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres  Account Info
(Web Page)

Who from Saudi Arabia visited my site?

     29 August 2002, 03:58 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

It wasn't me...

     30 August 2002, 01:22 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Chickendude  Account Info
(Web Page)

Me either...

     30 August 2002, 01:41 GMT


Update please I beg of you!
Shockwave  Account Info

Whenever I put up a file they never update!

     2 September 2002, 20:17 GMT


Re: Update please I beg of you!
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Same here... the summer is always slow

     3 September 2002, 23:37 GMT


Re: Re: Update please I beg of you!
bogus ti productions  Account Info
(Web Page)

and the winter is fast?.... NO!



"visit my site -a quote"

     10 September 2002, 13:53 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

it was that one guy who keeps talking about goats

...or maybe it was the purplefrogging shampooer

     3 September 2002, 01:11 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

That was him--PolarDPres IS the guy who was talking about the goats and was high on... something, and I don't think he is Saudi Arabian, visited his own site, and then asked us all if we did it... unless he was high then too..

     3 September 2002, 23:38 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres  Account Info
(Web Page)

pot, and after those post, I am quitting, no I wasn't high when I posted that though, dot.tk site stats said a saudi had visited my site, and Im from the US.
and purple shampooer wasnt me
and goats are an inside joke with my friends, one of my friends was caught by his mom looking at well, goat porn, dont ask, I dont get it, we just make fun of him.

     5 September 2002, 20:33 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

<perverted voice>come here goat! hehehe</perverted voice>

     6 September 2002, 06:08 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Wow. You're a talking goat.
Yeah, that's great, I can talk, terrific.

     6 September 2002, 19:17 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres  Account Info
(Web Page)

Kluge (my friend who likes goats) would like to know if you could introduce him to the goat?

     6 September 2002, 20:45 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

And now... back to the news.

There has been an interesting turn of events. All the "pr0n" websites have now changed into something new... goats. And now, people everywhere are becoming p3rv3rt3d, looking at them...

     12 September 2002, 21:51 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres  Account Info
(Web Page)

I think he got it off kazaa, there are some sick people out there, and that would suck if all the porn was goat porn.

Except for Kluge, hed like it.

     13 September 2002, 20:55 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

I heard a rumor that kazaa contained spyware.

     14 September 2002, 18:31 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarC  Account Info
(Web Page)

I think ur right

     14 September 2002, 20:08 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

KaZaA "had" spyware? noooo... KaZaA HAS spyware! I still use it though, for what I can get with it...

I got myself a spyware cleaner, and removed all of my spyware things off my computer. I ran KaZaA, and it gave me an error that something like a needed component had been deleted and that I needed to reinstall KaZaA.

KaZaA has spyware, and will not run without it.

     14 September 2002, 20:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Jubei Jordan  Account Info
(Web Page)

You might want to give kazaa lite a try. They modified kazaa to use a dummy load for the spyware, and it works just as well as kazaa does.

     20 September 2002, 17:16 GMT

Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Flint  Account Info
(Web Page)

Actually, the SE does have a crystal in it. Someone (Michael Vincent maybe) made a stop watch that used the crystal to keep time, so it is possible.

     26 August 2002, 15:24 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
S67  Account Info
(Web Page)

we just have to wait 4 years. Then it will put a clock and icon menu, about 200k more RAM in a rom update.

     26 August 2002, 17:46 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Chickendude  Account Info
(Web Page)

lol, yeah.

     26 August 2002, 18:35 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Halfmoon Account Info
(Web Page)

I wish...

     27 August 2002, 03:58 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
ac

4 Years? Ti wouldn't do that in 400 years!
p00p! them!

     28 August 2002, 18:58 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
RCTParRoThEaD_  Account Info
(Web Page)

TI-83 Plus II

     28 August 2002, 23:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

or, TI-83+ Gold Edition :-p

     29 August 2002, 19:20 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

And they could make it with real gold! And sell it for $100!

     30 August 2002, 01:23 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
RCTParRoThEaD_  Account Info
(Web Page)

actually, if they did that, they would have to make the processor 25mHz

     28 August 2002, 23:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

They could make it 20 MHz too.

     29 August 2002, 04:55 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
medevo Account Info

This Stopwatch Uses MirageOS's Timer Function (that is available for TI-83+ and 83+ SE

I Believe that the crystal in the SE would be used for the DBUS assist (but that is just a guess)

Medevo

     26 August 2002, 21:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Not to be rude or anything, but why do so many people have capitalization problems? Believe, Uses, Timer, Stopwatch, and Function aren't the first word of a sentence, nor are they proper nouns...

     29 August 2002, 19:22 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

I never really pay attention to the capitalization anymore. Ever since e-mail came around

"Hey, I went to the store with Bob yesterday"
is the same as
"hey i went to the store w bob yestaday"

     30 August 2002, 01:26 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

hey, Who'S boB?

     3 September 2002, 02:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yo Momma

     3 September 2002, 23:42 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

Dude! how do you know so much about me?

     4 September 2002, 02:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Because I can haxxor and I am roxxor, but I'm not suxxor, but I still get beat up by joxxors.

     12 September 2002, 21:56 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

I have a ti-89 and 83, take calculus, and am in 10th grade...I also play football and wrestle...so the joxxors(some people consider me to be one) might <I>try</I> to beat me up, but would probabally not try to :)

goats are fun

     13 September 2002, 08:08 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
ac

g00d! for you.

     13 September 2002, 13:46 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

Indeed. See URL.

     27 August 2002, 05:11 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Kirk Meyer  Account Info
(Web Page)

Unfortunately 83+ doesn't have interrupt levels... Therefore all of the programs (quite a few, including the OS) that disable interrupts would cause the clock to run slow.

     28 August 2002, 00:23 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Rob van Wijk  Account Info

Is there a way (without the soldering iron of course) to use the Non-Maskable Interrupts?

     28 August 2002, 20:28 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

There is no way with a soldering iron, and there is no way without a soldering iron. The TI-OS cannot handle NMIs because 0066h is in the middle of a routine. Now independent OSes could, but you couldn't fix the hardware anyway.

     28 August 2002, 21:29 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
slimey_limey  Account Info

In a future release, they could relocate their code if they wished.

     29 August 2002, 00:56 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

No, because the hardware still doesn't support it.

     29 August 2002, 01:31 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
slimey_limey  Account Info

Eh? (cocks head to left)

Do you know as much about 89s as you do about 83(+(SE))s?
I would like some hardware tips (both platforms) for my emulator.

     30 August 2002, 00:26 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

Not at all.

     30 August 2002, 03:35 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Shockwave  Account Info

Instead of having an internatl clock why don't they just make an external hardware accesory. I mean if I can think of an Idea then they can do it. Let say I have a digital watch. Most or nearly-all digital watches have a second timer. If someone could attach a wire to the cord that leads to that sector and attach that wire to the reciving part of a link cable then it could work. There would have to be 2 calculators first. 1 calculator would be on the side with the recieving part connected to the watch. Every time a second changed a chrage would be sent through the cord to that calculator. If a program (In asm) could read the incoming bursts then it could add it onto the a timer. every second. Maybe someone could put it on the minute timer and get a change every minute. Of course that wouldn't solve the problem with having interupt requests slowing down the readings. The nly way to beat that would be to have something external send in the time. Hey you never know it might work and Im' still working on the wireless and phoneline link. If you want more information on this eamil me at ... my email. Thanks Mike

     31 August 2002, 20:18 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
KrYpT  Account Info
(Web Page)

If you have a digital watch, why don't you just look at it?

     1 September 2002, 01:11 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Shockwave  Account Info

True but the point of that was to explain how easy it would be for TI to create a timer accesory for the TI 83. Therefore whats so hard about putting one inside the calulator. Nothing! The clock could run completely seperate from the OS. This would mean that when the OS ran a program it could discontinue running the scripts from the clock and rejoin after the running the program or the math question get it! AND 1 for me.

     1 September 2002, 23:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

That's pretty much how it works now. You have to check it though...and you are back to interrupts.

     2 September 2002, 01:22 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Benjamin Moody  Account Info

But suppose you set the timer to its lowest (8hz, right?) So you'd only need to check every 32 seconds. Now, the update routine is very short:

in a,(timerctl)
and 4
ret z
ld a,1
out (timerctl),a
ld a,(mytimer)
inc a
ld (mytimer),a
ret
(or we could test for overflow, update next timer, whatever)

Nice programs will let the interrupt routine do this. Mean programs won't. To support the less nice programs, we could simply add the routine into, say, fastcopy, or some other library routine that we expect to be called fairly often. For new programs that don't want an interrupt, all they will need is to call TimerUpdate at some point during their main loops. Remember, it only needs to be called once every 32 seconds. That's a long, long time.

     2 September 2002, 21:21 GMT


Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
q x  Account Info

That's what they[people] said about the 89.

     30 August 2002, 04:39 GMT


Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Gavin M. Northey  Account Info
(Web Page)

I think having a system clock would take more battery power since it'd have to be on all the time, or it'd have to draw power off the lithium. I don't know much about TI's hardware, but I have a feeling that there might be some hardware limitations toinstalling a system clock.

     27 August 2002, 07:02 GMT


Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

Not at all. There is a 32.768 kHZ crystal in the SE, which uses an unmeasurable amount of power to run, on the order of microamps. To enable the clock, one of the 3 adjustable timers based on this crystal would be programmed to generate an interrupt every second. The calculator would then briefly update a counter, and then go back into HALTs until the next second. It's very low drain because the calculator uses ~.05 milliamps when off, and 24.7 at full execution speed, but the time the CPU would run at full speed is very brief, so the total power drain would appear the same.

     27 August 2002, 14:48 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
RCTParRoThEaD_  Account Info
(Web Page)

So, why don't u make a clock app that would display the time in the lower right hand corner?

     27 August 2002, 21:55 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

It couldn't easily be an app. But I've made an OS with the clock in the lower-right corner, however because I don't have TI's level of knowledge about the calculator, it currently draws about 1.2 mA all the time since I can't shut down all of the hardware and still execute HALTs.

     28 August 2002, 00:38 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres Account Info
(Web Page)

I assume you mean BOSS, which I assume is a great program, but it didn't work on my calculator, is it only for the 83, and not the 83+?

     28 August 2002, 16:28 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

No, I mean an OS that runs only on my calculator that I have...sorry :)

     28 August 2002, 21:30 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Torael  Account Info

Why couldn't you release it, out of curiosity.

     29 August 2002, 00:08 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

Because first of all, it's an extension to the TI-OS and thus I can't distribute it legally. Second, it has some issues such as a constant 1.3 mA consumption...that kills your batteries about 2 weeks. It would be much less but I haven't yet figured out how to turn off the calc hardware without turning off the timers as well.

     29 August 2002, 00:25 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Torael  Account Info

You coded an extension to the os? 0_o

I sometimes wish I had the technical skills to do that. :p

     29 August 2002, 04:13 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

I don't understand why everyone is making such a big deal out of this. The way it is now, it's not even that pratical (power drain). I just wanted to show that it's possible. There is the issue of the disabling interrupts in games, but unless they are disabled all the time, you probably would only lose a few seconds during each game. TI wouldn't care since they can put blame on the games.

     29 August 2002, 06:29 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

If TI doesn't support/encourage the games on the calculators, then why do they have Puzzpack App for download advertised in their magazines and stuff?

     30 August 2002, 21:13 GMT


DumbQuestion
DarKanto Account Info

Dumb question for loads of you, anyhow, i got my calc 2 days ago, and i can;t delete any apps, and i am wonderinghow to erase some..... anyway, my calc is full and i need some space, thanks for any answers.

     20 September 2002, 05:22 GMT


Re: DumbQuestion
sean dill  Account Info

you need to hit [2nd] [+] [2] [alpha] [math], this will give you access to the apps part of the application. Next repeat, instead of hitting [math] hit [apps] this will allow you to delete application variables. NOTE: YOU CANNOT DELETE THE FINANCE APPLICATION. (at least not to my knowledge.)

     2 November 2002, 04:42 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
slimey_limey  Account Info

How did you get it there?
Why can't you let other people have it?
Is it because of not being to be able to sign your OSes?
I'm currently (present tense, not future) writing an 83+ emulator for the 89, can I have it to distribute with the emulator (assuming it works)?

     29 August 2002, 00:33 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

I put it there?
Because it'd be illegal to release an OS that contains TI's code from a third-party.
Somewhat related.
No, but I'd like to see that emulator when it's done. It sounds great.

     29 August 2002, 01:33 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres  Account Info
(Web Page)

Its not illegal as long as you note that it includes ti-os components, and your not making money or copywriting it

     29 August 2002, 02:41 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

That's not true.

     29 August 2002, 03:47 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres  Account Info
(Web Page)

Why not?

     29 August 2002, 04:01 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Because you're STILL using their code for your own purposes, without permission. Maybe if TI gave you permission to include their code (which will probably never happen, seeing their track record), you could include it in a user-built OS, but saying that you can use it if you note that it's their code is like saying that you can keep a video game ROM on your computer legally for 24 hours if you own the physical game. Technically, it's not even legal to rip CDs to MP3 format, since by purchasing the CD you've been licensed for ONE copy of the music... and that copy is on the CD.

     29 August 2002, 19:26 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres  Account Info
(Web Page)

okay, I was wrong, got it now

     30 August 2002, 01:34 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres  Account Info
(Web Page)

No I found out if its for "Education", you can use their stuff, or thats what my teacher said

     11 September 2002, 21:07 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
SuperMKL321  Account Info

What about this, He tells TI he will give them his OS including all the changes that he made as long as they distribute everything they use it for freely

     31 August 2002, 01:54 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Um... that would be kind of pointless. They would gain nothing from that deal. In other words, that would basically be a single person somehow gaining bargaining power over an entire company for their own software.

     2 September 2002, 09:13 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
rgdtad  Account Info

When you buy a CD, you are licensed to USE one copy of the music at any given time. You can do whatever you want as long as you don't distribute the music. Also, ripping CDs falls under fair use. Similarly, you can keep ROMs on your computer as long as only one instance of the game is in use at any given time. I have read every clause of the copyright laws and I do know what I am talking about.

As for TI giving anyone permission to modify their OS, it's never going to happen. They are in this to make money and even though they aren't making much off of us, they still want it. Open source just isn't profitable from a corporate standpoint.

     31 August 2002, 04:17 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Ok, you're right... I misread the copyright law... ripping does indeed fall under fair use. Just like recording a TV show does, too. However, if you have any emulated video games on your computer, you're breaking the law (not that I don't...). Video game ROMs do NOT fall under the 'fair use' policy. If you read the little warranty/license notes in the back of any video game instruction book, they stipulate that you cannot legally use the software if you attempt to make any sort of copy of it. Mainly because they're easy to distribute freely, and that is breaking the law. Now, if you have a ROM grabber for any old console system, and you make the ROM yourself, THAT is legal, as long as you only run one copy at once. However, simply having ROMs you have NOT made on your computer is NOT legal.

     2 September 2002, 09:16 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
ac

Gosh, you mean that? I must be breaking all of those laws! Next you'll be saying hacking is iligal...

     9 September 2002, 22:04 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Chickendude  Account Info
(Web Page)

or illegal...

     9 September 2002, 22:33 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Sean Barnes  Account Info
(Web Page)

That's complete BS. That would be like redistributing the Windows XP sourcecode (with a slight modification) for free (or not) and just saying "This is Microsoft's code and I'm not making money off of it."

Even if you recompiled it and sold the binaries and sent all the money directly to MS it would be illegal (without prior permission to do so).

     29 August 2002, 03:55 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
PolarDPres  Account Info
(Web Page)

We'll I meant get permission, you always need to get permission before editing anything that isn't yours.
But unlike Microsoft, Ti releases updates for free, and if you rewrote XP and sold it, or gave it away, that would be illegal, because you are selling some one elses software, But Ti probably wouldn't mind because theres are all free. He could release it as a patch to the OS, then Ti would not care.

     29 August 2002, 06:00 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yes, it could be a patch. But there's still the problem of the power drain. If done properly (like the Voyage 200) it's not any greater. However, TI of course does not publish how to turn off all the hardware except the timers, so I'm currently just HALTing with the LCD off.

     29 August 2002, 06:28 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
slimey_limey  Account Info

Open VTI, press 2nd off, immediately press f11, single stpe, and jot down the instructions that the OS executes. It isn't that hard, just non-obvious.

     30 August 2002, 00:54 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

You think I don't know that? The problem lies in the hardware. The hardware will shut everything off if the interrupt timers are disabled AND the calculator is at a HALT waiting for an On-interrupt. To fix that, you have to output some sort of value to the hardware (if this is even possible).

     30 August 2002, 03:37 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

output a value to the hardware? you mean like a password?

     31 August 2002, 07:35 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

No, I mean the correct command to turn off all of the hardware except the crystal timers, if it exists.

     31 August 2002, 15:58 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
slimey_limey  Account Info

Since I only _license_ software from Microsoft, does that mean that I can't change the binaries on my computer? How about correcting errors in a library book with a pencil and a post-it note? I do hope it's okay to run HW2Patch, because IT (pun intended) owns their ROMs.

     29 August 2002, 23:51 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

hey, maybe we could start calling them IT...it would have a strange scifi sound to it, make you think of TI diferently, and seperate programmers even farther away from everybody else(like the L33T and W00T type stuff).

     31 August 2002, 07:43 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Um... what would be the point of that?

     31 August 2002, 19:50 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

because <scary mucic> IT told me to!!! </scary music>

     1 September 2002, 01:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Time for the 343GuiltySpark News!
*dramatic music plays*

     2 September 2002, 16:03 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
ac

OMG, how do you know this stuff?
Is there anything you don't know about calculators?
w00t!

     28 August 2002, 19:00 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
slimey_limey  Account Info

>>> OMG, how do you know this stuff?

with part numbers from the calc and a web browser

>>> Is there anything you don't know about calculators?

only the private key TI uses to sign their apps and flash roms

(I'm not Michael Vincent, this is just simple deduction)

     29 August 2002, 00:39 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

I don't know much about this, but if they distribute the key, couldn't you get it? is it extremely encrypted or hidden or something? I've heard of people who could crack CD keys, and programs to do that, so couldn't it be done fot the calculator?

     29 August 2002, 07:31 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

They don't distribute it. They use RSA crytography, where each 83+ has a copy of the public key to decrypt OSes which are signed by TI's private key.

     29 August 2002, 14:55 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Isn't RSA encryption currently the world's strongest method?

     29 August 2002, 19:31 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yes, but it depends on the size of the primes too.

     30 August 2002, 00:11 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Benjamin Moody  Account Info

That depends on how you define strength. A cyrptosystem is defined as "secure" if an adversary cannot distiguish (within a negligible probability margin) between two possible messages. For example, if we send the message "Nothing to report" every day for a month, and then we send "Attack at dawn", the adversary doesn't know what we said, but will know that we said something of importance. By this definition, RSA is not secure, because it is deterministic: for every message, there is exactly one ciphertext.

     31 August 2002, 20:09 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

you're not supposed to send a message twice with any encryption method...that's partly how some people cracked the enigma code

does anybody know how the RSA encryption works on the IT calculators?

     2 September 2002, 09:51 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

My speculation is that the signing process creates a MD5 hash of the app, which is stored at the end. It's then encrypted with the private key. On the calculator, to validate an app, it's decrypted with the public key, and the resulting hash compared. I'm not sure about this though.

     2 September 2002, 16:45 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

so...someone would first have to know the key(wouldn't the private and public ones have to be the same?) to decrypt it and then know the MD5 hash method to validate it? is it possible for someone to get these somehow?

someone within IT to leak it.

someone could compare codes of many OSes to their encrypted results. is it possible to get the code for the OS, or does it just decrypt onto the calc and won't come off without ecryption?

what about that guy who created extra things to his OS, how was he able to do that, does he know the encryption method?

what about Virtual IT, it is completely software...could the encrypted confirmation be taken from that?

     3 September 2002, 01:42 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

CD keys are easy to crack because they're not often truly encrypted. It's not even a checksum, where the last 8 to 16 bytes or so of the total amount of data on the CD are converted to ASCII characters, because this would mean that every CD would work with the same key - and ONLY that key, since the total would never change. It's more likely that a CD key is based upon some math formula where the ASCII values of the letters/numbers in the key are multiplied, added, divided, subtracted, etc. by/to something, then the sum of these is run through some function. This method, obviously, could produce numerous working results, but you'd have to figure out the formula (which generally isn't too hard) to crack the key.

     29 August 2002, 19:31 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Speaking of which, how exactly does encryption work? Is Winzip just another form of encryption that reduces the file size? I never really understood that, and I'm kind of interested.

     30 August 2002, 01:31 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

WinZip is not encryption, it's compression. I'm not sure which algorithm exactly it uses, but a common (and really simple example one) is Huffman. You calculate the frequency that each possible byte value occurs in the data to be encrypted, and then make a tree with the most often at the top, and the least common down off many branches...The algorithm has you take the two least nodes, combine them, add together, and some other trivial steps. Anyway, when you decrypt you read one bit at a time, and go left on the tree for 0, and right for 1, until ending up at a value.

Encryption also uses algorithms, but relies on stuff such as data-dependent rotations and secret keys, in which you depend upon having a password/key no one else has, and the fact that you rotate bits dependent on the data to be encrypted. There's also stuff like S-boxes to increase randomness. If you are interested, you can download an encryption application I wrote for the TI-83 Plus at http://michaelv.org/programs/krolypto/ Don't be scared of the disclaimer about people in rogue nations :)

     30 August 2002, 03:42 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Torael  Account Info

Kryptolo is an awesome program, even the version that's out right now (.1 beta). Even if you have no use for the encryption, it still has a feature to lock up your calculator, completely. Pulling a battery out at the password screen doesn't bypass it, though I know how to get past it...

     30 August 2002, 05:17 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

Congratulations! There's only one way that I'm aware of, and it's not something I can prevent.

     30 August 2002, 06:18 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Do you have to take out the lithium battery to reset it back to normal?

     30 August 2002, 15:40 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Torael  Account Info

Eh.....I'm not sure, ask Michael.....I mean, the other, well known Michael, not me 0_o. Ehm, anyway, even if that did work, this way is far faster. You just...well, I think I'll let it remain a secret, you can figure it our for yourself. ;)

     31 August 2002, 02:05 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

(am I completely wrong or something)it seems to me that when you put the IT-graph link into the calculator and start an OS transfer, it sends something to the calculator that is understood by some chip or something inside the calculator to override the system, wipe everything out, and install the OS onto the calculator. If you removed the chip, the calculator would probabally not work. I don't see any way around that

     31 August 2002, 07:55 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

So, just for you, are they going to change it to ITcalc.org?

     31 August 2002, 19:51 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

no...not for me... <scary mucic> For IT!!! </scary music>

     1 September 2002, 01:38 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

Hey Michael Vincent...Is that your method? to reinstall the OS?

     3 September 2002, 01:49 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

ah...I get it...keep'n it a secret eh? ;)

     12 September 2002, 07:13 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Not for him... <scary music> for IT! </scary music>

     14 September 2002, 18:38 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

Oh and by the way, 0.2 beta is out now. I fixed the 3 lines of code that were messing up hooks.

     30 August 2002, 06:27 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Torael  Account Info

Ah. Yeah, I'd noticed that it had been interferring with Omnicalc.

     31 August 2002, 02:02 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Chickendude  Account Info
(Web Page)

Is it for download anywhere?

     9 September 2002, 02:59 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Chickendude  Account Info
(Web Page)

Never mind, I found a link to it in the Gemini article

     9 September 2002, 22:36 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

It probably uses a modified form of a binary compression tree... basically, what this does is makes a list of all the characters used in a file (bytes are converted to ASCII), then maps them out on a binary tree (a data structure like what a family tree would look like upside down if each set of parents had only one child). In this way, you can start at the root and work your way down going left or right; each time you go left, you follow the '0' path, and each time you go right, you follow the '1' path. When you put all the 1s and 0s together as binary numbers, you've now created your own character coding system... and if the file's data doesn't use all 256 ASCII characters, this method will compress the data.

For example:
Take the word 'moonshine'. You could map it out as:

____s
__o
____h
m
____i
__n
____e

Then, the letters are as follows:
m='1'
o='11'
n='10'
s='111'
h='110'
i='100'
e='101'

and moonshine can be read as '111111011111010010101'
which is a lot smaller than the binary code for each of the letters in moonshine. The compressed version is 21 bits (not even 3 bytes), and the original would be 72 bits (9 bytes). Obviously, 21 is less than 72.

I'm not sure if I have this exactly right... because the way I've said it could make decoding a problem. Ah, well... you get the general idea.

     30 August 2002, 18:46 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

But shouldn't the bytes all have the same length? Otherwise, you wouldn't know how to properly decompress it.

m='001'
o='011'
n='010'
s='111'
h='110'
i='100'
e='101'
?

That's just my thought, it's probably wrong, though.

     30 August 2002, 21:17 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

No, because when you follow left and right for 0 and 1, you know if you've reached the end of a code because there's a character in the tree. Otherwise, you are at a branch.

     31 August 2002, 00:02 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

no, not necessarily... that's the problem with my method... I can't remember exactly how it works... I think the tree is actually built in a way that all the letters are on leaf nodes (no child nodes), meaning that whenever you hit a letter it *HAS* to be the right one (since there are none beyond it).

btw, saying '1', '001', and '00000000000000000000000000000000000001' are all the same thing (in SIGNED math) and can all be stored as just a 1 bit '1'.

     31 August 2002, 00:06 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

but if
'111111011111010010101'
is "moonshine", couldn't it also be read as

111 11 101 1 1 1 10 100 10 10 1
"soemmmninnm"
(going by
m=' 1'
o=' 11'
n=' 10'
s='111'
h='110'
i='100'
e='101'
this)

How would you know how to de-encrypt it? There's more than one possibility.

     31 August 2002, 19:56 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Hence, what I just said! That's the problem with my method. There IS a solution... like I said... "I think the tree is actually built in a way that all the

letters are on leaf nodes (no child nodes), meaning that whenever you hit a letter it *HAS* to be the right one (since there are none beyond it)." Here's a

much better example of this:
m
X/
/ \o
/
| n
/X__/
/ \s
X
\ h
\X_X/
| \i
| e
\/
\X
Notice that none of the letters have any child nodes. (an 'X' is a node with a NULL value):
m = 111, o = 110, n = 101, s = 100, h = 011, i = 010, e = 001
which are the decimal numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Moonshine is encoded as:
111110110101100011010101001
Only 27 bits. Far less than the original 72.
To decode, go back along the tree, guided by the bits, until you reach a leaf node.
1... node linked to n/s & m/o nodes
11... node linked to m & o nodes (the 0 DOES matter, so you can distinguish 'h' from '0')
111... m node!
The process continues until you reach the end of the bits. Eventually, you come out with 'moonshine'.
The reason compression works so much better with plain text documents is that they tend to use a very predictable set of characters: A-Z, a-z, 0-9, and

punctuation/accented characters. Even if there are others out of these ranges, they will add very litte to the compression map. A bitmap compresses

similarly, because it uses very repetitive pieces of data whenever large chunks of identical pixels are near each other.
With more complex files (such as .EXE files), the data stored is more likely to use characters not normally found in a text file. Therefore, not only will

the compression map be bigger, but the file will compress less as a result.
Hope this helps explain what I meant!

     2 September 2002, 09:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Shite. Stupid non-formatted crap. Hopefully this turns out better.

That tree should have read:

_____ m
____X/
___/ \o
__/
__|__ n
/X__/
/___ \s
X
\____ h
\X_X/
__|_ \i
__| e
__\/
__ \X

Stupid news thing... can't make everything <pre></pre> style...

     2 September 2002, 10:01 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

MUCH better, w00t! SKREEEEEEEEEEEE!

     2 September 2002, 10:08 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yeah, w00t! That looks better! :) :)

     2 September 2002, 16:05 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

I have ABSOLUTLY no idea what that means

     2 September 2002, 10:19 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

The little "_" is just a spacer, since I can't use regular spaces (they're truncated by TICalc) - unless it is followed by a slash, in which case it is a line from a node to its children. The 'X' is a node with a value of NULL. The forwards and backwards slashes are branches of the tree. The letters are nodes with those letters as their values.

     2 September 2002, 21:29 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

sorry, but not being able to use HTML hurts. I can show you a better representation:
http://www.bugstew.net/tree.gif

     2 September 2002, 21:33 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Benjamin Moody  Account Info

Some bits you read will cause you to get a character, and some will cause you to read the next bit.
Here is roughly how we would Huffman-compress "moonshine":

* We find the freqency of each letter, and sort them.
o = 2
n = 2
m = 1
s = 1
h = 1
i = 1
e = 1

* The two least common are combined, so i and e become (i,e). (i,e) has freqency 2, so it is now the most common letter.

(i,e) = 2
o = 2
n = 2
m = 1
s = 1
h = 1

* We repeat until we have a complete tree: ((n,m),(s,h)),((i,e),o)

* Now, we code
n as 000
m as 001
s as 010
h as 011
i as 100
e as 101
o as 11
to get
001 11 11 000 010 011 100 000 101
or
00111110 00010011 10000010 1

So if we read 11, we don't need to get a third bit, because o is a complete tree itself, equivalent to any other pair.
While this isn't the best example, you can see that since o is more common, it is written in only 2 bits, while the other letters take 3 bits each.

     31 August 2002, 20:33 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Alright, that makes more sense.

     31 August 2002, 22:54 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
KrYpT  Account Info

Wouldn't you have to save a copy of the tree as well? So that you could look up that 11 actually meant "O"?

     1 September 2002, 01:37 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yes, generally you store the tree as small as possible and include it with the compressed data.

     1 September 2002, 03:34 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

could you possibly rezip a zip file?

     2 September 2002, 03:37 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Sometimes, yes. Usually only if you didn't compress the original file at maximum compression. But sometimes, a zip file is generated that can be compressed slightly more, just like any other file.

Sometimes, a zip file is created using RLE compression, but only if there are fewer than some arbitrary small number of characters in the original file. For example, if you have a text file that says "1337" over and over again, you could create a zip-style file that was simply comprised of the string '1337' followed by 'x' bytes containing the number of times that '1337' was repeated. Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong.

     2 September 2002, 10:16 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

Well, hey! That's exactly the name I was looking for! Cool.

     2 September 2002, 10:13 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
Joe Blow  Account Info

dude, lord_nightrose, you and me are the only people on this message board right now at 1:30 AM

     2 September 2002, 10:27 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI Releases ROM v1.15 for the 83+
lord_nightrose Account Info
(Web Page)

actually, where I am, it's GMT -5:00 ... meaning I posted that at 3:13 AM :-p

     2 September 2002, 21:34 GMT

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