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Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Posted by Nick on 13 June 2000, 03:47 GMT

Alright... many (many) people have presented this idea on our comment boards, on our email lists, on IRC, in emails to me, as news items on here, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Now, it looks as if a group of people are going to make a serious, gung-ho attempt at it.

François Goldgewicht, Jean Canazzi (the author of Bigdyna), and Niklas Brunlid (former staff and the author of Prosit) are looking for assistance in the development of a new TI-OS for the 89 and possibly even the 92 Plus. Below, you will find an ICQ chat I had with François today - it addresses some initial questions I had. My only concern is TI adapting their hardware to not accept such a ROM, but ... yeah. Email François if you're a skilled 68K ASM programmer and you'd like to join the project.

Trollou 6/12/200 1:44 PM hi

i have something to ask u :)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 1:44 PM shoot

Trollou 6/12/200 1:46 PM i have a project : i would like to make a rom.
i already studied this and i am sure that's
possible. this would be in open source, etc.

i would like to create a programers group,
international coders so i just would like u to
post a news in order to help me :)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 1:47 PM hrm.. impressive :-)

Trollou 6/12/200 1:50 PM it's simple... every coder of the ti-fr group
is ready (almost :) )

the project is xplained on ti-fr home page
(use babelfish to transalte :) )

the mail is : webmaster@ti-fr.org
(name : François Goldgewicht)

thx

Trollou 6/12/200 1:52 PM u can put the name "jean canazzi" (author of
bigdyna)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 1:53 PM ok

Trollou 6/12/200 1:58 PM other name : niklas brunlid

BlueCalx 6/12/200 1:58 PM wow... is this intended for math and stuff
too, or just gaming compatibility?

Trollou 6/12/200 2:05 PM everything : it will replace the tios :)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 2:08 PM okay....
if you make it so the math functions are just
as madly elite, then i'll definitely post :)
(me being the math geek that i am)

Trollou 6/12/200 2:09 PM :)

Trollou 6/12/200 2:13 PM at a fisrt time it would be just a big program
who stands with the tios...
in oder to have maths functions etc.

but after we could make uour own types
(stack...)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 2:14 PM yeah....
i'll be back later, i'm going to take a
shower.

Trollou 6/12/200 3:06 PM look at ti-fr and go to the comments : u'll
see the enthousiasm of the frenchies :)
 


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Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Juan Corral  Account Info
(Web Page)

Okay, here are my "requests"

1. Minimalistic. I don't want a bunch of crap, unless you make it run super fast! I want to do math and play games, FAST!

2. Speed. And lots of it, I want you guys to suck every clock cycle out of the feable M68k.

3. Optimization. I'm sick of TI's crappy coding skillz, I want my 3D graphs to fly!

4. No More Kernels/Libraries. Bah, these just clutter up my folders!

6. A REAL Directroy Structure. With a pretty file manager (Tex is open source...), and nested folders!

7. A CLI. Sure we all want a nice GUI, but c'mon everyone knows that a CLI will make for greater speed.

This is what I could come up with in the few minutes I've had to think about it...

     13 June 2000, 04:31 GMT

Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
WhySanity  Account Info
(Web Page)

okay.. by CLI.. i assume you mean "command line interface".. like a terminal?? if so... how the heck do you expect to type.. now if it were a ti92.. no prob.. but i hate typing on ti8x.. it sucks (to be blatant).... now i was thinking.. refering to linux.. in a narrow sense, it's a kernel... in a broad sense.. it's all the programs that come with the distro (from grep and more to x11).. now.. why not have the tios (read: narrow linux)... and then thre would be a slew of optional programs (CLi _or_ GUI, etc. [read: broad linux]).. food for thought

     13 June 2000, 04:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Juan Corral  Account Info
(Web Page)

Not like Linux, but like the way the TIOS is now. A GUI would need to much power making it slow (read: bad)!

     13 June 2000, 04:54 GMT

Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Amalfi Marini  Account Info

Everything OK. But I don't like the Idea of that CLI... just want the nice gui. Maybe it's a good idea to make a CLI system, and a "nice GUI" as a plug-in
mmm, things are becoming more and more interesting...!

     13 June 2000, 04:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Juan Corral  Account Info
(Web Page)

Bah, quiet you! GUI = slow!

     13 June 2000, 05:02 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Amalfi Marini  Account Info

GUI = slow(s the machine) = fast (for using)



     13 June 2000, 05:15 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Juan Corral  Account Info
(Web Page)

Umm no. I could install a program in Linux with a few letters and some switches, whereas in Windows I have all these stupid windows poping up asking me stuff, bah!

If you are handy with a CLI, I can assure you you are faster than someone with a GUI.

Also it's GUI = Easy To Use.

     13 June 2000, 05:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Harper Maddox  Account Info
(Web Page)

dont use either.

there is a reason that the standard Zshell/Fargo folder style interface is the de-facto standard in TI assembler shells.

     13 June 2000, 07:25 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
calcfreak901  Account Info
(Web Page)

a very good reason at that
its also why zshell is the most downloaded calculator program in history

     13 June 2000, 15:01 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Chris Mair  Account Info

I have an 86 and I like the GUI interface that AShell uses. I would like to see some sort of a GUI like that on my 89 as well. It is a fast shell on the 86 and probably would be faster on the 89. I want to be able to select the file much like in AShell and Fargo2 rather than having to type it in or go to var-link all the time. Nothing against Doors OS, but it's not as fast as AShell and crashes most of the time unless you have the correct AMS on your calc. I want a OS that simple to use and also graphically sophisticated to all other calcs making it the best out there!

     13 June 2000, 21:55 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
calcfreak901  Account Info
(Web Page)

as an owner of the following TIs: 83, 85, 86, & 89,i have used a number of shells over the years, and Zshell and Ashell are the best two, as far as games compatibility and widespread usage are concerned. I also believe that ashell would be the better model, and that (WARNING: possible pipe dream) this os, if developed, should include emulation for all linkable z80 calcs, if possible.

     14 June 2000, 00:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Jeff Meister  Account Info

VTI beat ZShell in downloads a month or two ago. Hehehe.

- Jeff

     14 June 2000, 12:55 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
calcfreak901  Account Info

true, but vti is actually a COMPUTER program, while zshell is a CALCULATOR program

     14 June 2000, 14:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Jeff Meister  Account Info

/me feels beaten :)

- Jeff

     14 June 2000, 17:23 GMT

Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Xavier de Boysson  Account Info

CLI interfaces are way faster than GUI an easier to code.

you get use to type on calc anyway...

a cool thing would be an oncalc compiler like AS92 or Ontic so that you would be able to modify functions or who knows, the rom without using your PC.

An Archive utility is therefore necessary (unless we get fully working anti-crash protection !).

Zaz

     13 June 2000, 05:06 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
calcfreak901  Account Info
(Web Page)

i can type 20 wpm on my TI-89

anyways, crash protection is essential, and on-calc compilers for asm and c/c++ would be nice, as would a true directory structure, not unlike the folders window frame used in windows explorer (dare i say it!)
it would also be interesting (but not likely to happen) to be able to set up a calculator lan
it would also be interesting to be able to send files directly to archive (actually, if a true directory structure is used, it would make no sense to send programs directly to ram without copying them to archive)

     13 June 2000, 20:43 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Aaron Peterson  Account Info
(Web Page)

I've got a start to a typing tutor for an 89.

     16 June 2000, 03:18 GMT

Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
SabreEve  Account Info

The new AMS was supposed to do most of your requests *cough*demands*cough cough*. routines were optimized, third-party asm funtions asm functions were reduced, and through all of that, they found out that they could use some of the space that held ams on the old version as flash. If they can crack in, then they can easily do another "reaportioning" of the flash, allowing for built in librariesreader programs, or even shells. Imagine, pick your FlashROM, Doors, TEOS, or other shells (those were all I could think of). and if the TI routines are anything like the 86 (that's the only calc I've learned to program), they all need some serious optimization.
But on to the real issue. I think they should release workable patches that fix problems (this patch speeds up the 3d graphs, this one speeds up the 2d graphs, etc.) Kinda a "Counter-Strike" way of doing things, but it would keep the coders from feeling like nobody cares, and it would give a true status update
on the patch (anyone can lie about how much they've done)
well, ok, there's my rant. Anyone else?

     14 June 2000, 17:51 GMT


Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Cavan Carroll  Account Info
(Web Page)

HACK AMS 2.01 OR 2.02!
If you have either one, please send it to me.

     14 June 2000, 18:27 GMT

Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
compman32386  Account Info
(Web Page)

There goes that RED type again!

     13 June 2000, 04:35 GMT

Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Juan Corral  Account Info
(Web Page)

You wouldn't want those lousy z80 coders in on this would you?

     13 June 2000, 04:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Jim Haskell  Account Info
(Web Page)

hush you =)

     13 June 2000, 05:20 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
compman32386  Account Info
(Web Page)

Why? z80 Assembly programmers are lousy. None god games for z80 calculators! They are all imitations of something, or things that don't work all that great. No one ever bothers to program in greyscale either for z80. So you hush.

     13 June 2000, 05:32 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Nick Disabato  Account Info
(Web Page)

I really, really, really hope to whatever higher power exists that you're kidding.

--BlueCalx

     13 June 2000, 06:01 GMT

Uh oh...
Jim Haskell  Account Info
(Web Page)

This could be the start of a flame war... lemme get my fire extinguisher.............. on second thought, lemme get a bucket of gasoline >=)

     13 June 2000, 07:20 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
compman32386  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yes i'm kidding. I have lots of games that I like on z80 calculators. Who would actually believe that their arent any goos games for z80 calcs? Sorry if I offended anyone.

     13 June 2000, 23:31 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Kerey Roper  Account Info
(Web Page)

What are you talking about? There are good games and bad games for the z80 calcs just like there are good games and bad games for the 68k calcs. And imitations? There are at least three bomberman clones, four nibbles, and four othellos in the 89 assembly archive.

The main reason there is little greyscale for the z80 calcs is because it only works well the 86. The 85 doesn't have enough ram for the greyscale in most cases, and also, the 82, 83, and 83+ use an LCD driver, which makes the screen flicker if you try to do greyscale, so it's not just because z80 programmers don't bother to.

Kerey
http://members.xoom.com/k_roper/

     13 June 2000, 06:42 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
MathJMendl  Account Info
(Web Page)

The z80 chips suck, huh? Ever heard of a little thing called Game Boy?

     13 June 2000, 08:57 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
compman32386  Account Info
(Web Page)

I've never been too fond about GameBoy's or GameBoy Color's. z80's aren't all that bad, they just need to go abit faster.

     13 June 2000, 23:42 GMT


TI underclocks chips
DeeKay Account Info

The TI calcs totally underclock their processors. You can go on the internet and buy a new z80 running 8MHz (i think) for less than 10$ and a M86k running 24MHz for about 15$, the processor in the 89 now is a 12 MHz UNDERCLOCKED to 10, the reason for this is for battery preservation. Meanwhile, GB or GBC do not conserve batteries :). Anyhow, do not compare the TIOS89 and TIOS83 because they are not even comparable in usability.

DeeKay

     14 June 2000, 16:17 GMT


Re: TI underclocks chips
James Eberhart  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yeah, well the GameBoy Color's Z80 only rns around 2Mhz! And look at what it can do! So there!
--voxx

     7 April 2001, 22:41 GMT


Re: Re: TI underclocks chips
Rudi.83g  Account Info

Perhaps you do not know that the Gameboy uses some modified Z80-like processor (with better support for local variables on the stack), ROM banking (therefore more space for code) and a graphics chip that supports sprites? The Gameboy, which runs at 4.xxx MHz, only updates sprite positions and bitmap pointers - the rest is done by the GFX chip. If the TI calcs had such a GFX chip, they would be much faster in gaming!

     17 May 2001, 22:23 GMT


Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Nick Disabato  Account Info
(Web Page)

Should I write all my news items in red type?
:)

--BlueCalx

     13 June 2000, 05:33 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
MathJMendl  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yes!

     13 June 2000, 08:58 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Ciaran McCreesh  Account Info
(Web Page)

You should highlight your name in pink or something. Or how about giving any message posted by staff a lime background :)

Ciaran

     13 June 2000, 19:43 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
CircaX  Account Info
(Web Page)

Well. . .you should experiment with many colors! Type random hex in for HTML colors. That would really get interesting.

     13 June 2000, 20:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Cavan Carroll  Account Info
(Web Page)

You should use random color css styles for the backround of each sentence ;^> and while your at it, HACK AMS 2.01 OR 2.02 and if you have either one then please send it to me.

     14 June 2000, 18:32 GMT

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