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Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Posted by Nick on 13 June 2000, 03:47 GMT

Alright... many (many) people have presented this idea on our comment boards, on our email lists, on IRC, in emails to me, as news items on here, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Now, it looks as if a group of people are going to make a serious, gung-ho attempt at it.

François Goldgewicht, Jean Canazzi (the author of Bigdyna), and Niklas Brunlid (former staff and the author of Prosit) are looking for assistance in the development of a new TI-OS for the 89 and possibly even the 92 Plus. Below, you will find an ICQ chat I had with François today - it addresses some initial questions I had. My only concern is TI adapting their hardware to not accept such a ROM, but ... yeah. Email François if you're a skilled 68K ASM programmer and you'd like to join the project.

Trollou 6/12/200 1:44 PM hi

i have something to ask u :)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 1:44 PM shoot

Trollou 6/12/200 1:46 PM i have a project : i would like to make a rom.
i already studied this and i am sure that's
possible. this would be in open source, etc.

i would like to create a programers group,
international coders so i just would like u to
post a news in order to help me :)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 1:47 PM hrm.. impressive :-)

Trollou 6/12/200 1:50 PM it's simple... every coder of the ti-fr group
is ready (almost :) )

the project is xplained on ti-fr home page
(use babelfish to transalte :) )

the mail is : webmaster@ti-fr.org
(name : François Goldgewicht)

thx

Trollou 6/12/200 1:52 PM u can put the name "jean canazzi" (author of
bigdyna)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 1:53 PM ok

Trollou 6/12/200 1:58 PM other name : niklas brunlid

BlueCalx 6/12/200 1:58 PM wow... is this intended for math and stuff
too, or just gaming compatibility?

Trollou 6/12/200 2:05 PM everything : it will replace the tios :)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 2:08 PM okay....
if you make it so the math functions are just
as madly elite, then i'll definitely post :)
(me being the math geek that i am)

Trollou 6/12/200 2:09 PM :)

Trollou 6/12/200 2:13 PM at a fisrt time it would be just a big program
who stands with the tios...
in oder to have maths functions etc.

but after we could make uour own types
(stack...)

BlueCalx 6/12/200 2:14 PM yeah....
i'll be back later, i'm going to take a
shower.

Trollou 6/12/200 3:06 PM look at ti-fr and go to the comments : u'll
see the enthousiasm of the frenchies :)
 


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Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Hexalon

why don't code in C with asm routines when neccesary.
C is easier to debug.
that's what TI uses to make their ROMs.

     13 June 2000, 03:56 GMT

Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
YesMan  Account Info

that's the reason why ti's calcs are slower than hp's..... it is the asm. If it were in assembly, as hp's rom is, it would be at least 2x as fast

     13 June 2000, 04:24 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Amalfi Marini  Account Info

is your nick-name related with Jon Anderson ?

2x as fast? just a little more... 10 to 100x as fast :)
(depending the function)(yeah, sounds cool)

     13 June 2000, 04:36 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
jon Account Info

wha what?!?! thats me.

     23 June 2000, 02:30 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Harper Maddox  Account Info
(Web Page)

I'd like to see you code an entire ROM in assembler.

This type of a project requires much more finesse than brute force.

     13 June 2000, 07:18 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Cassady Roop  Account Info
(Web Page)

It's been done before, though. The 86 ROM was coded entirely in assembly.

     14 June 2000, 03:54 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Jeff Meister  Account Info

Yes, but by professional assembly coders who were paid for their work and told exactly what to do. It's harder than it sounds.

- Jeff

     14 June 2000, 12:49 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Cavan Carroll  Account Info
(Web Page)

HACK AMS 2.01 OR 2.02 .......
TI couldn't sue anyone because they already denied that they wrote it.
And if they claimed it was thiers, then we could counter sue for misadvertisement or something.
If anyone has 2.01 or 2.02, please send it to me.
I've tried getting it, but nobody has sent it to me :^(

Cavan

     14 June 2000, 18:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
yosweetlady  Account Info

Baka... Ti never claimed that they didn't write it, read the damn license that comes with it. Ti never officially released these versions because they were non-finals of 2.03. I have 2.01 though, E-mail me if you really want it.
Btw, I think you fromagians (my word for french) are idiots. You'll never be able to hack up a rom, even if you could it could never compare to TI's, and you'd still never get the calc to accept it or graphlink to transfer it. You're all wasting your time, why don't you just go make a decent program instead?

     15 June 2000, 10:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
acr34  Account Info
(Web Page)

Well, there is an idea TIOS would be much faster that the origional one But you might have to adjust the timing circut in order to get it to work. And make sure to keep the bcalls the same. And, And. Mabye you should ask TI for their code. It would be in C, but then you could eaisly make the few changes you want, I mean don't reinvent the wheel. And I disagree about the debugging part. C and C++ are MUCH harder to learn than asm, and harder and more frusterating to debug

     13 June 2000, 12:48 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Tim Buckingham  Account Info
(Web Page)

REAL smart there. Ask TI for the source :P LIKE THAT WAS EVER GOING TO HAPPEN :) That'll just piss of TI and they'll make some kinda safeguards against it in new calcs or something ;)

     13 June 2000, 16:05 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
amicek  Account Info
(Web Page)

I don't think there is much that TI could do to safeguard against people making a new ROM version. Even if they created some hardware to prevent this - anything is possible =-0

amicek

     13 June 2000, 18:30 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
jerry_vigil Account Info
(Web Page)

The programmers at TI will not be the only ones to get angry. Teachers, administrators for the college board and others will also get mad because the 89 will have awesome math functions that once only existed on HP's and software like mathematica, and maple. TO HECK with those who get angry. Programmers will make their own roms. Imagine an 83+ with the functions of a 92+. Of course, the 83 would be slower, but tests like the SAT, ACT, AP Calc, AP Physics, and GRE would become incredibly easy, mathematically speaking.

     14 June 2000, 00:05 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Jeff Meister  Account Info

Teachers these days just don't understand. Give a kid a TI-Explorer, and he may look stupid with it at the beginning, but by the end of the semester he'll have hacked it to type letters, made an infrared link, and be sending the test answers to his friend from across the room.

- Jeff

     14 June 2000, 02:18 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
ColdFusion

Down with teachers, up with calculators!!!

     14 June 2000, 03:30 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Jeff Meister  Account Info

That's my new favorite quote :)

The old one was from Contact:

"First rule of government spending: why build one when you can build two at twice the price!"

- Jeff

     14 June 2000, 12:50 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
CircaX  Account Info
(Web Page)

>Imagine an 83+ with the functions of a 92+.

Yes, i'm getting an image. . . .why, the TI-89? but of course! and IT (89) can be used on those big tests too!!

     14 June 2000, 19:02 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
YodaToad  Account Info

Actually, you can't use the 89 on the ACT (I had to use my 83+ because of that =/ ).

-Erik Davidson

     15 June 2000, 22:22 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Mercury  Account Info

WHAT?????? You mean to tell me you have never switched cases with your 89/83+??? IT'S EASY!!!! done it many times :P

     18 June 2000, 04:12 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Operations  Account Info

yeh thats an awesome idea making a 92+ style rom for other calcs, is it gunna come out for ti-85's??? cuz i have an 85 and a 92+ but my teachers allways whining "you cant use them on sat's so you cant use it for this class" well reply soon please

laterz- Operations

     14 June 2000, 22:54 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
S67  Account Info
(Web Page)

Ti-85s are hrad roms, not flash, so they can't be modified, not matter what(unless you replace the roms physically). you notice people are talking about making roms for the TI-83+,89, and 92+ because they have flash rom!

Down with teachers, up with calculators!

     15 June 2000, 02:39 GMT

Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Juan Corral  Account Info
(Web Page)

Bah, quiet you! I want a 100% pure ASM FlashROM to rape the capabilties of my powerfull M68000 running at 10 MHz.

     13 June 2000, 04:25 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
BeautifulGeorge  Account Info

hw2=12mhz

     17 June 2000, 00:02 GMT

Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Amalfi Marini  Account Info

so, they won't use that metod . :)

No, it's true, C is easier.

Dream1)
If someone could get the source code of the TI-OS, then they would be able to optimize it.

Dream2)
If someone could port the HP49G rom to the TI89
then we would get a new rom

Dream3)
If someone could do both things, then maybe a dual boot calc...mmm , this is a little stupid. But maybe to have 2 roms for choice.




     13 June 2000, 04:25 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Xavier de Boysson  Account Info

nah...you have to code it in asm. C is nice,easy,etc... but not good enough.

the rom will need speed. however, C could be used for smaller functions

anyway it's a crazy idea :)

the rom would be a class thing to get though !
no more restrictions from ti etc...

Zaz

     13 June 2000, 04:51 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Rudi.83g  Account Info

When one wants to use C for this (which is MUCH easier in the case of big programs), one could use a well-optimizing compiler like gcc. You also can spit out particular routines in asm and hand-optimize then.

     21 May 2001, 14:27 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Cavan Carroll  Account Info
(Web Page)

Hack AMS 2.01 OR 2.02

     14 June 2000, 18:23 GMT

Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
ajaisharma13

Has anyone played monkeybomb it is the bomb!!!!!!!!! I love that game I am surprised that it did not get a feature on ticalc. I am currently porting it to asm with a bunch of new stuff. Oh yeah whoever made the hi-lo sprite thingy that is the bomb

     17 June 2000, 18:48 GMT


Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Rejun2000  Account Info
(Web Page)

1. C is much easier than assembly (especially 68k assembly)

2. C is MUCH slower than assembly (it so bloated you can't write z80 programs in C and hope to fit them on your calc)

3. Why start a whole new ROM, why not start with hooks (kinda like Omnicalc for the 83+) then jam them all together in one monster pack and build off of that.

4. This is gonna be hell to debug, you'd have to keep the EXACT same addressing as the original 89/92+ which means the ROM would need to be about the same size (another reason to use assembly).

5. If this is successful TI is gonna either sue you or recruit you (possibly with threats of legal action), but my experiences with TI leans toward sueing.

6. You could just throw this all together in a shell that doesn't have an exit option, effectively replacing the TIOS (but not screwing with the addressing) while allowing you to add all sorts of new features.

-Rejun2000
Thanks

     25 June 2002, 02:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Sock It To 'Em: New TI-OS?
Adm.Wiggin

yes, i like the no exit idea... it makes it seem like it is cool or something :)

     3 October 2003, 04:17 GMT

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