Yeah i see ur point but still Basic is very easy to assemble and there are programs that convert Basic to Assembly but yes ASM is good but Basic is well Basic but still what about a inter-linear language
a cross between basic and asm

On TI BASIC:

I'm a pure TI BASIC programmer, and I have one thing to say-
(coughs)
er....
(thinks for a second)
Oh yeah! being a TI BASIC programmer may have it's pitfalls (ie: speed, graphics, size), but in today's world, we can easily help that! For the speed, just use subroutines for massive programs and for graphics, figure some way to help it out! Omnicalc works fine in my opinion, and other programs or groups of programs that are assembely can help out (slightly, but they can). For the size, er um, well..., the only way the average TI BASIC prgrammer can cut back on size is to take out all of the little areas and commands that are not needed. THhe size can be helped, but it would require a lot of time to redo the entire or even parts of the prgram that are memory hogs.

Hey, I'm just wondering.
Since the screen is an lcd, can't you find someway in asm or maybe even basic so that you could create color in basic like so:

line(0,0,10,0,"green\
or
pt-on(0,0,Green)
Just wondering

I object. My first time ever programming was in TI-BASIC for some old TI-83. I loved it. BASIC being basic allows simple math programs to quickly be made, and games to be written when I have no idea how to do it in Java or C++ (I wish some TI-BASIC features were in them, actually).

BASIC is great, and even though it lacks in speed, it's great for what it does, not what it can do (which is still quite a lot).

I think the best way to improve BASIC is speed. If we could get a simple BASIC->ASM compiler that would make basic as fast as asm, it would solve everything.

I know this is off topic but I don't know where else to put this. Is there a program for the TI-86 that can factor like the TI-89 or TI-92? Onw of my friends has a TI-92 and al he has to do is put in the factor program and then type x2-7x+28 and it'll give him the answer in this form: (x- )(x- ). He can type anything he wants and it'll give him the answer. If anyone has a program like this please e-mail me. Thanks

Although your problem was way off topic, I found a glitch with Detached Solutions apps on the ti83 plus for a factor( command.

Sorry, but due to limiting on ticalc's message boards, I have to move my reply to a webpage (see above)

PCS:

¤¤¤¤¤¤
¤ ¤
¤ ¤¤ ¤
¤ ¤
¤ ¤
¤ ¤
¤¤ ¤¤
¤¤ ¤¤ ¤¤

sorry about the ¤'s; it should make a picture.

Why not just get a good c or c++ compiler (or interpriter if there is such a thing) that will run on the calc? The only real reason I use BASIC more than ASM is because I have my calc with me all the time and a computer with me only some of the time. I also like c++ a lot better than basic.(or asm)

Making a interpreter on the calc for C++ would be MUCH slower than BASIC.

In agreed, I say why not make an asm library, with input from basic, further, make a windows/linux program that you would take your basic function and convert them or it to asm, slow and long process, but each user could make their own library with little or no asm knowledge. Then uploading your own function for every user out there

I'm a Basic programmer, I've never really tried ASM though. Actually, I have read some tutorials... but... no.

I totally agree that ASM is for the processor, Basic is for the people, and that Basic functionality should be improved. OmniCalc, Symbolic, etc. Apps like that do that. Maybe an App, ASMlib or Function or SuprCalc or something that.

Anyway, like in Omnicalc it would be a menu that showed the "new" features for the calc. Some new features I would like to see:

Sprites (OmniCalc has it)
ShutDown
Archive
UnArchive
Delay (in milliseconds)
Grayscale
Sound
A special menu with all the wierd characters, like ê (e^) and other characters (;)
Arrays

Stuff like that. O, and I use an 83+... so forgive me if those are available on other calcs (I know the Greek menu or something is available on 85).

I own A 84+Silver, but the code is the same. Archive and UnArchive are avaiable as comands. You have to go to the "Catalog" menu to find them, but they are available. Some of the others would be nice though.

From where I'm standing, the main problem with making a BASIC graphical RPG for TI-83 is not speed (now that Omnicalc is out *g*) but size. To have a really good in-depth game (with a litle thing called a PLOT) I'll need to run stuff from archive...probably will need the persons to have MirageOS. Assembly will cut it down sizewize, but let's face it. There will never be a large number of peeps who want to spend a large amount of time learning assembly then spending insane amounts of time writing...so BASIC will always be more used. Live with it.

Oh by the way, does anyone know a program that would allow you to archive/unarchive programs on the TI-83+?

See my reply to joebeta.

I think you hav to ad comands for:
* Turn on and of menus
* Timer, alarm
* Do like you pushed a buten on the calculater
* Make a chart or table
* Upercase and lowercase
* Make a text edit window, and program can do stuf with it
* More stuf

Just to let you know you misspelled add, have, pushed, calculator, Uppercase, and stuff twice
and
"*Do like you pushed a buten on the calculater"
makes no sense at all...

i don't want to start off this with an overly negative reply, but i have some things i'd like to say.

is there any need for this? i mean, why not just write the damn program in asm? true, it would be easier the way wilson suggests, but it seems to me to be a crutch; either a program should be written in pure assembly with the intention being to be a tight, well coded game, or a BASIC program. note i said program. BASIC is really not meant for games. true, some people (even i) have written a rather abundant supply of these masses of code (and i do mean masses), but BASIC is still really better at math than mario. there seem to be some good asm programmers out there writing some rather lame games (no offense please), so why not email them suggestions.

instead of writing BASIC games, write BASIC progs and send ideas to asm developers.

if you completely disagree with my opinion, say so and PLEASE say why.

thanks,

KAKE

Okay Kake. Few questions.

#1 what have you programmed. Have you ever sat down and made a game in BASIC or ASM.

#2 which was easier?

#3 which one didn't **** up your calc

#4 which one had more flexability

#5 which one did you have time to program

#6 which one can you do on calc?

Well if you don't think those are fair I'll answer them.

#1 both

#2 Basic

#3 Basic

#4 Basic

#5 Basic

#6 Basic

Wow waddya know. Basic actually kicks some @$$ in it's own area. Think some of us "BASIC" programmers do so because we don't have a pc or the experience to program assembly. As a matter of fact I have programmed some BASIC games that people PAY to play. And when I let them just play whatever is on my calc they still play my game. Why? Because BASIC kicks @$$!!

So think on that!

What games? On the net? What clac?

flexability? basic? uhhmm...no

-Dan

I can't say anything about asm programming because I have yet to learn how(although I will as soon as I can find something that will tell me how on the TI-89, but I can talk about BASIC programing. I have programed several games for the TI-83 in basic and although they were not uploaded to this site because I they got erased before I got a TI link, they were very good. Since I am the only person in my school(i think) with a link, I generally here the requests for games and the two most requested games would have to be drugwar(basic) and adnd(BASIC my game that no longer exists) the REAL problem with basic programing is anyone who trys it trys to make mario. I agree with all of you who say that BASIC is not made for games with graphics but who says a game needs graphics. All graphics do is make up for a lack of creativity. Anyone who doesnt believe me just remeber when every new game for SNES or GENISIS was a fighting game with better graphics. The secret to programing in basic is be creative and come up with games that dont need graphics. Right now I have just started working on a texted based game similar to a MUD i used to play on. I will upload it as soon as I am done. If you want proof that BASIC isnt a dead language wait for my game or better yet, download DRUGWAR I think every calculator has a version and it is probably the best game out


PS One more VERY important benifit of BASIC is you can program directly on your calculator therefore, it can be done in class or waiting for a ride after school or any other time you have nothing to do

Really nothing to do at all with the main article but I agree, or something, with Walker. Where is a decent Download(text file, zip, book, whatever) that can show someone 68k assembly. I mean, I started to learn about 86 assembly, but then my calc got stolen and I sort of gave. up

Argh! Drugwar makes me wanna puke. At least, Drugwar for the TI-82/83. Have you ever looked at the code? It's so bloated!!! I once went through optimizing here an there and reduced the size by roughly 1/5.

Alright, I have been a BASIC programmer for a long time and their are few things I have not been able to do with the language. Usually, if you think about it, and don't mind slower speed, anything you can do in ASM can be done in BASIC. Also, I have a mac, for which their is no ASM support, except for CAZ, which does not work. I am currently working on a BASIC game for the 83 which features sprite based combat and walking. There is plenty of flexibility in BASIC if you spend some time with it.

ok hot shot, which allows you to draw sprites, move images pixel by pixel, have entire maps lay out (like mario) have greyscale, even classic games like daedalus, that could never be possible in basic. The first guy knows what hes talkin about, if you cant program asm, then dont whine about it being too hard. BASIC BLOWS, if you can program, then it wont crash your calc, and it uses the z80 to the max, there is so much more you can do with asm, like ANYTHING you want to do to the calc. Combining asm and Basic sounds nifty, but there isnt really any point, cuz if you are a basic programmer, you would still have to know about asm, to be able to make use of the asm/basic conversion.

You really don't have to know asm to take advantage of the conversion. It really depends on how they make asm program.
If for say they make a basic sprite, then all the basic user might have to do is load the sprite in a matrix/list, pixel coors in X and Y and then put send(9prgmASM (83 way). Wouldn't have to know much asm to do that now would we??

I think I might just make one to see how good it would actually work.

Jimmy

Actually, pretty much all of those things you just listed can be done in Basic. Just not as fast. I'm certainly not against asm (In fact, I'm totally for it), but some Basic games are pretty good too. (Have you ever tried any?)

Who says you have to know asm to combine asm and BASIC? Have you ever heard of Ulterior Motive or Ultra Starter?

I don't get it. How do you do BASIC greyscale in TI-83? I mean the exact code. Where are all these BASIC helpers, if that's how you call it? I am a basic progger, so a sprite loader will be really helpful!

Gee, I didn't think someone would look at an article this old. However, to use grayscale in BASIC, you usually must just do it a few pixels large or else it will flash. Use the pxl-change command until a key is pressed, then do whatever else, and jump back to the label for the pxl-change and getkey command when the other stuff is finished. Pxl-change is the key.

This is my method of doing greyscale pics in basic. Simplified, the program recalls pictures, and gives the appearance of greyscale. The way to do this is like so: Make a picture ,but include only the part of the greyscale pic you want to be black. Store this pic as something. Then go back to the graph and add the part that you want to be a dark grey. Notice ADD. Don't clear your picture. Save this picture as something else. Do the same for the light grey area. After you have done this, make a program like this:


Lbl A
ClrDraw
RclPic GREY1
RclPic GREY2
RclPic GREY3
Goto A

You will see the picture in greyscale, but it will most likely be very flickery. this is because the ClrDraw on the calcs is slow. It doesn't look half bad, and it looks awesome for TI-Basic. My friend and I spent a band trip doing PxlOn's by hand to make copies of the pokemon pictures from the gameboy game of the same name onto our 83's. Pikachu looked great.This should work for all the TI-Calcs. On the 89 (92+ also?), you can use the Cyclepic Command:
CyclePic("grey",3,.01,2500)
It is much cleaner because somehow, the ti can clear the graph faster than ClrDraw can.
Thanks for reading all the way through this. Hope it helps someone

First off, I would like to say that you don't need to be making fun of BASIC. You can program that everywhere. Second of all you sound like you're just using a lot of technical jargon to sound like you know what you're talking about. Most people don't even know what the calculator's z80 is. I think you're full of yourself.

Now that I have that off my chest Ican get on with what I came to talk about. I program very fluently in ASM and BASIC. Mostly I program BASIC when I get an idea. That's the best advantage of BASIC. Later, I convert it into ASM. Although I hate to admit it, BASIC is a piece of crap compared (note the keyword, COMPARED) to assembly. ASM just blows the crap out of it when it comes to speed. Plus ASM can access all of the calculator's functions. That can come in very handy.............

There's a kid at my school that EVERYONE hates. His name (or so it's been for about a year now) is Gaykid. He bought a TI-83 because my friend Russell and I have one. I made an assembly virus and sent it to his calculator. I charged him $20 to take a magnet to his processor. That was about the only way to fix the virus. Erased EVERYTHING on his calc. ASM can be used for money making tactics on stupid people.

I've heard that the asm language for calc programming is a lot like that for the Gameboy? Does anyone out there have experience programming Gameboy games? (the reason I'm posting this here is 1- gameboy games are pretty small in size... I was wondering how it was achieved and 2-I didnt know how to start a discussion on this) I have just recently purchased a GBXchanger, a device that connects a gameboy cartrige to the computer parallel port. With this, it is possible to write your own gameboy games. This seems like something a few of you guys would be really good at, considering your experience with the calcs. Just wanted to mention this.

Basic - flexible? ROFL - Basic is one of the most unflexible language ever written. You can't get more flexible than with asm.

Ah, the tradeoff between flexibility (or control) and difficulty of the language... *sigh*

ïsava om'davïd.

That was a sentence in an artlang of my own device, saying "My name is David". Is that language flexible? Not really- my language is more steadfast than Spanish. But is it easy to learn? You bet.

Now, for the guy who happens to get bored during trig or precalc, would he want to spend months doing a game with stunning (well, as far as 8 greys can go) graphics and eighty levels? Or would he want a text-based game with plenty of depth, yet saving the stunning graphics for the imagination?
In my opinion, I'd rather have the imagery in my head- it's more real that way anyway- but still- have you seen games with graphics REALLY sum up in detail with those which are text-based? Given, these days more people know of Diablo than of Colossal Cave, but these are Z80 CPU's- the same that Colossal Cave made it big on.
Yeah BASIC is cumbersome. Yeah BASIC is inefficient. Yeah BASIC is time consuming. Yeah BASIC hogs the memory. But BASIC is as easy as talking to the dämñ machine!

Here's what I have to say:
1: If you don't think BASIC has a right to be big, shove it.
2: Graphics were meant for assembly. Text based or otherwise graphics impaired stuff was meant for BASIC. But it makes up for it in ease of learning, ease of writing and ease of navigation (unless you're using the hellbound TI-85 interface *waving hello*).
3: I write all my games for BASIC because I don't have the time to waste (yes, waste) on building a monster CLONE of a Nintendo game.

That wasn't meant as a flame. When I said waste, I mean- why squander your time building games for CALCULATORS when you could be spending it, say, compiling shareware in Visual C++? or Java compilations (I admit Java is a bit out-of-style these days), or even playing in a rock band? I admit, I have no life either. But jeez- BASIC is too basic. I may be contradicting myself here, but the demand for BASIC programs really is just as high as for ASM. First off- how many assembly games can you pack on a TI-85? Two? How many BASIC games? I wrote the most detailed BASIC RPG that I know of for my TI-85 (believe me, I've looked) and it takes up 9145 bytes- only about 20% of the memory. If you're an arcade enthusiast, you can fit twelve games on tehre! Now would you rather have a dozen little games to kill time with, or one big one that once you beat, is just taking up space?

Sorry if you think I'm rambling about nuttin- lemme know how aggravating this posting is to you all. :)

agerah mu s gy'eteï! (God be with you all!)

With honour,
cZaR

Oh, and I heard there was a BASIC programmers' alliance? What's the URL for it? Maybe they're lookin for an 82/85 BASIC programmer...

ever heard of bianary?

Well, BASIC itself is flexible.
(There are GOSUB..RETURN, ON ERROR GOTO XY (asm programmers would like ON ERROR GOTO... it is much better than crashing the calc), a nearly unlimited number of variables.
But TI-BASIC sucks (at least on 83 and 85):
83:
- only one-char variables + Ans or slow lists
- no comments shorter than 200ms (or Goto is needed)

85:
- not even TI83's DelVar command, but multichar variables
- nearly no string manipulation
- no possibility to run asm programs
- no comments shorter than 200ms (or Goto is needed)

But on both you have got powerful list operations:
3->A:sum(seq(X^A/X!,X,1,69))/e
5
13->A:sum(seq(X^A/X!,X,1,69))/e
27644437
6->A:sum(seq(X^A/X!,X,1,69))/e
203

How do you calculate these integers (integer for integer A >= 1 and a high enough "69" (well, 69 should be enough...) in asm?

hello Shane Abernathy. this is KAKE.

1. both (though asm 1/2 of BASIC)

2. BASIC

3. BASIC (enough of the clear fake swear words)

4. ASM. try greyscale in BASIC

5. ASM. it's a helluva lot more interresting

6. BASIC

i would like to take some time to critique your overall style. first of all, it's usually a good idea to keep the discussion polite, especially when you post your email address (i do because i want some accountability for what i say). second, if you're going to swear, swear, just for god's sake don't use those #$!@ %&$*@!! it makes you look dumb. third. two spaces after the period. i may type lowercase, but that's one rule i follow. fourth. numbered lists like that should be done like

1.

2.

3.

and so on.

and now i've got a few questions for you.

what game did they pay for and how much and how many people? i'm serious, i want to know. i know i used to charge people to install a custom drugwars i wrote specifically for our area.

i love BASIC, don't get me wrong, and i'm a BASIC programmer too. it's just that there are uses for one and uses for the other. whenever someone asks me what kind of computer to get, i always ask what they'll be doing with it. same here.

thank you for your time.

-KAKE
(John Martens)

What are you talking about?! This is a messageboard not a formal essay paper, it doesn't matter what the spacing is after you sentences. This topic is about combining ASM & Basic. Why don't we keep the board mature. I know a lot of the calc users here are middle school students, but that's no excuse.

Well still, it can make your message a hell of a lot easier to read.

The problem with these people is that they don't care, not that they're middle school students. (Disputes?)

Technically, the double spaces aren't needed on computers (when you're using a variable-width font, as the one you are reading right now). Double spacing was for typewriters to break up the "runs" that occur using a font where all the characters are the same width.

Well I'll first comment on your answers.

still looks like Basic showed up more. Interesting.

As for all the people saying that basic isnt flexible enough I'll give all you high up and up ASM programmers a challenge. I'll send you a program (just email me) and I want you to convert it to ASM. Heck, you can even take almost all the credit for it. Just say that the port to ASM was done by you and all.

To answer the guy who asked about sprites...
Yes sprites can be done witha matrix and x,y coordinate system. How? Like I'd tell you.

(It's very easy if you now what you're doing and have a hell of a lot of for next loops and if then statements. just use the matrixs for the sprite info and a seperate matrix for what goes where. That and a few Pic vars don't hurt for fixed backgrounds.)

Gray Scale is possible with an 86. I tried what
was stated below and it works for certain things. (Still graphics and movies mainly, not good for moving backgrounds and suck.)

Scrolling is possible in basic, but very slow though. Why do I know this? Because when I program ASM i want to get the logic right first. (No Emulator for poor old me. Everytime I use it it crashes my virtual PC on Linux, Oh well.)

Kake,

To answer your questions,

Game Name: maskaeria
Charge per person per version
free trial version. = free
version w/out ending = $10
full version = $15

currently:
27 free demos
14 w/out ending
25 full versions

Why? because it's a cool game. What it is, is a full length text RPG based on Seth Ables Lord. It has the gameplay in but the story line is comepletely different and all. It has it all and everyonw loves it. Now take those numbers and multiply by 10 because that's how many players can be kept at once, plus one sysop character.

If you want a copy I'll send one to you. Full version of coarse. I dropped the charges when I uploaded ot TI files.

Drugwars is cool. But I build all my games from the ground up. I even designed a fighting game in basic that WASN'T TEXT! (see above about sprites) and I built a Final Fantasy tactics fighting engine, thanks to J.K. BTW

Once more BASIC is cool. ASM is okay.

wow, a linux user complaning about a windoze app.
why dont you write one yourself if you feel you are such a good programmer, then you could do all of of us dual boot people a favor.

shane,
i am an all out basic and asm programmer, but one thing you need to understand is that basic, when run on the calc, is interpreted to asm.

so absolutely anything done in basic can be done in asm

BASIC... hmm... flexible? Ha! Yes, I do have respect for BASIC, seeing as that how I started programming, but ASM simply blows the hell out of BASIC. BASIC coders, once you go ASM, there's no turning back!

Actually, you can do ASM right on the calc. Well, the 86 at least. But I do agree, BASIC is much easier to work with. I think you have a good idea here.

I agree that BASIC is good for many things, but it is possible to write ASM directly on the calculator without using a computer. I downloaded the TASM include files from the net, and translate all of the code into machine code and type it in. It isn't easy, but it is possible.

I agree with you, Shane. BASIC kicks ass when you understand most of it. I don't want to sound like I don't like you or anything, but I too have written BASIC programs that my friends like, and I almost never get my calc to yself with them around. (Hick Quest 3, Hick Quest 4, soon Hick Quest 5, and also Windows 2002, and Office 2002) look for these BASIC programs at my future web site- http://www.Smithssoft.com

Okay...where do I go to learn about ASM. I am a dedicated BASIC programmer but I think it could be use full to learn how to write asm.

Idea***They should make a shell (how do you do that??) that can be opened with two main folders: one that opens ASM folders and another that plays BASIC programs. It should be activated from the APPS key so you could archive all you stuff to save ram and do everthing through the shell.

Hey, everyone, let's not forget that the '89 CAN draw sprites in Basic. It also CAN save, modify, and restore any kind of mode settings, including the graph and window modes. ie axes, etc.

hmmm, now isn't that interresting . . .

good point. it looks like TI is fleshing out their BASIC. what about local vars, delvar, considerably more powerful var manipulation, better graphing speed, etc. their getting there.

-KAKE

Ti-89/92 BASIC can also do Grayscale pictures as well. If you don't believe me, Download FF7 for the Ti-89 and stare at the Title screen for awile.

true, but it can't do greyscale during gameplay. I think the idea is good. I'm fairly good at programming Basic, though I haven't done too much of it. Asm on the other hand, I have no idea how to even start. (wish I did) If ASM could be used while programming in basic (which might be possible on the 89, I'm not sure), then all of us amateur Basic programmers could use them to make our programs better, and it would allow us a chance to begin to learn ASM.

yes, it's a pain but I used to make grayscale back in the day of my 86 Basic programming, I would make a return loop until a key was hit, and flash sprites on and off, you can't get too many going or it will just flash, but it was possible

This is exactly what you do for the 83.

OK, the problem with ASM is that it is a low level programming language. While it is possible to write perfectly complex programs in ASM, it is extreamly hard and time consuming. What there is a real nead for is a decent compiler, BASIC, Pascal, or C, that can be used instead of ASM. For programming to truely evolve, we need a powerful high level programming language. While Basic is anything but powerful, it is a higher level language than ASM. I have programmed in both TI-Basic and ASM and Basic is much easier.

An interesting comment about using a compiled high level language to build programs in. You might want to turn to some of the old CP/M archives for the compilers. I'd look for one of the "small C" compilers that uses integers only and rely on TI's floating point for any real numbers I needed. While the Z-80 is not much of a commercial machine today and has very little new software written for it, several years ago it was king. At that time, several C language compilers (as well as some Pascal compilers) were available for it. You can probably find some in the C/PM archives on the web. One problem which you will encounter is that these compilers were written in either 8080 or Z-80 assembly language and will not execute on today's PC's (either Intel or Motorola based) so you will have to find a good CP/M emulator. Given a C compiler and the information that TI provides about the locations of routines, you should be able to write code for the calculators. I'd probably look for a compiler that required an external assembler (that is, it compiles C code to Z80 or 8080 assembly language) and then optimize this compiler's output prior to assembling it. This would also let you specify the addresses that the code and variables should start at. It's interesting that today's calculators, with the exception of the keyboard and screen, compare quite favorably (and sometimes are superior) to yesterday's desktop computers. As far as the BASIC vs Assembler arguements are concerned, it sounds very much like those of my youth regarding Lionel and American Flyer trains. Both I and my friends outgrew those arguments and found that either train was fun to play with. The same goes for languages.

Who cares about the size of the program, if it runs okay. I have written a Dragon Warrior game on BASIC and, all modesty aside, it's pretty darn good. By having separate programs for each different function, it actually runs rather quickly(no slower than NES, that's for sure). The only problem I have encountered is the load time the first time you play the game or go to a new area, etc. If you have an 86, size isn't a problem anyway-this game takes up less than a third, and is about as epic as I care to make it.

A dragon warrior game... hmm. If you would email me the gaem I would appreciate it. I will send mine in return, and as for the load time. try loading each induvidual program (Tokeniezing it Can't spell sorry) before grouping them, it saves space. and at the same time it makes it faster.

Though your program is small and good, mine is large and indepth. If anyone wan'ts to know about the game email me. And i'll send a copy, or return email stating what is so cool about it.

thats pretty darn good basic coding!
i salute you