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Respect in the TI Community

Posted on 11 December 1998

The following text was written by Michael Bryan Cook:

What do I want? Respect. Just a little bit. O.K. enough of the song. Let me get to the point. I think that there is a lack of respect in the TI community. I am not talking about the TI-Files being hacked, or people selling link cables that never give them to you (I'm not saying that this happened). What I am talking about is on programming. The TI-89 is the newest and hottest calc right now (IMHO). So to get my start I decided to make a Mario game for it. As soon as it was announced, about 4 more were. Now the port of Mario 92 is O.K. with me. That's not a lack of respect, that's a port. But all of these other Marios that are being made put me in direct competition. I think that this is just rude. We don't kneed 5 different Mario games. What we need is 1 or 2, a great Tetris, maybe pack-man, and insane game (just as an example). I'm not saying that competition is bad, it's what drives us all.

This problem is not limited to the TI-89. I've even seen this on the 92, 82, and 86 and I don't even own them! As soon an someone makes a game or announces it, 5 other people rush to beat them. This is not only rude but when there are 5 games called Nibbles and only 1 is good it makes it an annoyance to find out which one it is. This is why we have many duplicates. One person makes one that is good. A few others make some that are better just to show up the first guy. Now the first guy keeps improving it. Makes new versions every few months. Ports it. And even though he wasn't the top at the start, he followed through and did what any good developer would do. He fixed bugs, added features, shrunk the size. But the other copies may still have bugs, are not optimized, and haven't been updated in 2 years. So what is my solution? All we need is a little respect. If you want to make a program, check the PUDs section on TI-Calc.org, the TI-Files, Dimension TI, and ask the mailing lists if someone else is making it. If you have two games called Mario (one like the Nintendo and the other like the original arcade) that's fine by me. They are different games. But when there are 7 just like the Nintendo one that's a problem. So show a little respect. I'm sorry if I offended anyone (especially with all this stuff about Mario) but I think that this point needs to be made. I promise to read the comments so get your say in too.

  Reply to this item

Re: Respect in the TI Community
musicdesp01  Account Info

i do agree with you, its hard to complete with duplicates but its harder keeping a ,well i call it a "calling card" in ti-programs of any language. Because people dont know ur callin card and the hacked program continues to circulate. If a "calling card" was released that would also be fruitless. Cause all people would have to do is to remove it.
So in essence we need to respect each other.

Reply to this comment    3 October 2006, 20:29 GMT

Re: Respect in the TI Community
texascameron Account Info

I say if you make another program based off of someone elses, give it differnt features and/or graphics. Deffinatly (sorry if that is spelled wrong) change the plot (if it's a plot based game). If everyone likes the new guy's features and/or plot to bad for the original programmer.

Reply to this comment    8 May 2009, 21:48 GMT

Re: Respect in the TI Community
ZomCoder  Account Info

I'm pretty new to the TI community, but I have programmed for three years in QuickBASIC, C and x86 asm (all together, not each) on the PC.
Anyway, I have seen similar discussions in the QuickBASIC scene. There is lots of disrespect as it were, but I honestly don't see what is wrong with trying to create some program that is better than someone elses. If thats their GOAL, then I agree, but I somehow doubt that it is. Writing another version of an existing program is a great way to learn. If you happen to be a better programmer than the last guy, then its his own bad luck I suppose, if being the best is his main concern. I have struggled with this for a long time and probably always will, but I believe that we should all try to enjoy programming, and not care that there are others better than us. Anyway, better programs are usually a result of more experience, or more passion for programming. In other words, the result of *different* people. If I were you, I would not complain that someone has created something better than what you can do. With experience, you'll be able to do the same thing. But what do you care? You love programming, don't you? Isn't that what matters?

peace out,

Reply to this comment    9 November 1999, 04:21 GMT

Re: Re: Respect in the TI Community
Steven Ford  Account Info

yes, programming to me is for fun, right now im only a frshman in highschool and any program i make is either for personal amusement, or for a class im taking. I love programming and it is my best hobby. I rly dont concern myself with making "quality" prigrams, maybe if i start working for some big company i would, but ita all just for fun now

Reply to this comment    24 May 2006, 19:50 GMT

Re: Re: Respect in the TI Community
musicdesp01  Account Info

i do see ur point
and thats why i program to just for fun
but it isnt all that fun for ur program to be hacked now isnt it.
Something you worked on and its just been stolen from you.

Reply to this comment    3 October 2006, 20:35 GMT

Re: Respect in the TI Community
Nathaniel Collier  Account Info
(Web Page)

Trivia Masters 2001
What is wrong with you who cares if a bunch of mario games start popping up every whare I don't care if alot of triviamaster games start popping up because if they do my company will throw them in the slammer for copy right infringe ment and I know you can't copyright your game Because it is ILEAGLE that you could even make the game you should stop whying and tuff out it out especialy since you should be glad your not in jail or paying series fines from Nintend of america.thank you for your time.

Nathaniel Collier
Trivia Masters 2001

Reply to this comment    7 August 2001, 05:25 GMT

Re: Re: Respect in the TI Community
Adam Wilson  Account Info

There is a very nice tool I'd like to tell you about. PUNCTUATION!

Reply to this comment    29 October 2001, 10:45 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Respect in the TI Community
Robert Bieber  Account Info
(Web Page)

Making a Mario game for the calc isn't ileagle, and neither is it illegal. Nintendo has copyrighted the compiled and uncompiled source code for their Mario games. Unless the game is called "Super Mario Brothers" to the word, or uses any or all of the code from the original Mario games, it's not copyright infringement. You can't copyright just Mario, as it's a man's name.

Reply to this comment    25 September 2004, 21:58 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Respect in the TI Community
Bill Conant  Account Info
(Web Page)

And you'd better check your facts before you come flaming on the forums, if only because 'your' going to be laughed out of them, hanging your head in shame. And learn some proper English, for Bob's sake!

Reply to this comment    19 November 2004, 14:24 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Respect in the TI Community
AnihilationNation  Account Info

Dont Bring Bob Into this ! I know you didn't just do that! lol :-P

Reply to this comment    21 December 2004, 06:18 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Respect in the TI Community
yeturbumi Account Info

Not to mention the fact that copyright is not considered infringed if the game is released for FREE. The ticalc archives are free for the public. Check your facts.

Reply to this comment    4 January 2010, 04:07 GMT

Re: Article: "Respect in the TI Community"
Dennis Lambe Jr.
(Web Page)

I completely agree with you, not just with regards to calculator programming, but in life in general. However, to stick to the point, I'd just like to bring up another aspect of programming in which there is less respect than there should be. That is, the distain felt towards BASIC programmers, and, conversely, the resentment felt towards ASM programmers. I felt that this was an opportune time to point out that poth types of programs have there uses, and both types of programmers make valuable contributions to the TI community.
I will admit that it is far more difficult, and therefore more impressive, to create an ASM program, and the results, at least in games, are impressive to say the least.
However, BASIC programs are easier to create, take full advantage of the calculators built-in math capabilities, and will not lead to unintentional loss of calculator data. They can also be quickly created, perfected, and modified by knowledgeable end users to meet everyone's needs.
In short: ASM programmers, give us BASIC programmers some respect. And BASIC programmers, join me in admitting that it would be nice to know how to do what they do, and leave it at that.

Reply to this comment    12 December 1998, 06:17 GMT

Re: Re: Article: "Respect in the TI Community"
The Notorious Computerman
(Web Page)

I agree with what you said about BASIC and Assembly programmers. People do look down on BASIC because of its limitations, and I'll admit, I usually prefer the ASM version of a program over the BASIC version. However, I am also a fluent programmer in BASIC, and I have downloaded but not yet started on the Assembly lessons from the ZShell School. Everyone has their own way of doing things, and sometimes BASIC is superior to Assembly Language, especially for people who are just learning to program. While I feel that Assembly should be the ultimate goal of a TI-8x programmer, BASIC is certainly a very important stepping-stone.

Reply to this comment    12 December 1998, 06:32 GMT

Re: Re: Article: "Respect in the TI Community"
Mog Kupo0 / ZeromusMog

I'd have to agree somewhat. I don't see any resentment towards BASIC programmers, but if there is, there shouldn't be. BASIC is a fine way to learn how to program, and even after someone (like me) has "moved on" to assembly, BASIC still has uses every now and then. It's great to make flash card programs to study with, or programs that use heavy math, such as a program that can tell you everything there is to know about a particular quadratic equasion.
Anyone out there who is making fun of or looking down on BASIC programmers should be beaten down with a large stick. BASIC is a great way to learn simple programming concepts, and there is no way I could learn how to do the things I'm learning how to to in ASM right now without my comprehensive knowledge of BASIC.
Please, if you find yourself making fun of BASIC programmers, don't. We don't want the TI community becoming as snobbish and rude as the Linux community. (Visit #linuxhelp with an AOL e-mail address if you don't believe that.)

Reply to this comment    12 December 1998, 21:35 GMT

OT Linux community

I would have to dissagree about the linux community being rude and snobbish. I think that perhaps you mean to say that the AOL community is rude and snobbish. If you post to a Linux newsgroup you are likely to receive an intelligent, helpful answer.

Reply to this comment    14 December 1998, 22:22 GMT

Re: OT Linux community

I'd have to agree with both of you... sort of... The Linux community is a bit rough on certain groups of people, mostly people who have just learned computers, and haven't learned Internet etiquette yet. AOL has targeted its service at new users, (mainly because there are more people who haven't tryed the internet at all then there are people on the internet already who are not on AOL) thoughs new users have given all AOL members a bad rep. Linux users tend to look down on AOL members because they are viewed as newbies who haven't yet put in there dues in the computer science community. Befor anyone gets mad or anything, I'd like to point out that I might not be the most objective person, because of the fact that I use both AOL(on windows98 or course) and I use a Linux workstaition, for animation. I guess that makes me the bastard son of both worlds doesn't it?

Reply to this comment    16 December 1998, 14:32 GMT

Re: OT Linux community
Boris Brishnikoff

i think you are mistaken, you mean the.... well, nevermind.. AOL rocks and no other server could let you get near as many games....

Reply to this comment    19 December 1998, 12:33 GMT

Re: Re: OT Linux community

And as we all know, the ultimate goal of computer networking and 70 years of advances in computer technology and human knowledge in general is to let you play womb raider with the lara croft nudie patch over AOL...

Reply to this comment    22 December 1998, 01:48 GMT

Re: Re: OT Linux community

no other server could let you have access to as many games... except for all of the others. AOL sux, it is slow, and the connection is bad. Get a REAL isp

Reply to this comment    22 December 1998, 17:35 GMT

Re: Re: OT Linux community
Jeremy Mullins
(Web Page)

The only problem is AOL is tediously slow. I have a 33.6 connection to a local service provider and my best friend has a 56k connection to AOL (he's getting it for free before you make fun). Even over a slower modem connection I have ping times that are about 500% lower than his ping times through AOL (200 ms vs. 1000 ms to certain game servers). I'll grant that AOL is fine for a casual user, but if you only use the internet access, and not the AOL stuff (and I don't know anyone who actually uses the AOL stuff), a dedicated service provider is a much better option.

Reply to this comment    23 December 1998, 22:17 GMT

Re: Re: OT Linux community
Olathe  Account Info
(Web Page)

Go to www.mirc.co.uk, download mIRC, connect to DALnet, or just ab0out any other network, type /list, right click on the list when it finishes, and select List options..., and search for any sting that has to do with that. You will find much more variety on IRC than you will ever find on AOL.

Reply to this comment    19 August 1999, 09:33 GMT

TI isn't nice
VeXXoR Account Info
(Web Page)

I use Windows ME and the graph link soft ware doesn't work.
TI said it was because i use Windows Me but i think its because i use a Compaq that has very few original parts (motherboard and powerbox haven't been replaced... yet...) ti told me to wait until TI-CONNECT comes out, thats a little while away...
its coming out near the end of 2001, months away with no games and not being able to back my TI-83,TI-83 Plus, or TI-89 up? either get rid of the math teacher that only knows how to clear the memory, have TI work faster on the TI-CONNECT project, or make a new version of graph link, for Windows ME and 2000
i am now done.

Reply to this comment    31 March 2001, 05:09 GMT

TI Roms
(Web Page)

Go to http://direct.at/tiroms

Reply to this comment    13 December 1998, 19:54 GMT

Re: TI Roms

If anyone doesn't know, the distribution of TI calculator ROMs is prohibited unless the end user owns a physical calculator. This site contains TI ROM files for the 82 83 85 86 and 92.

Reply to this comment    14 December 1998, 01:45 GMT

Re: Re: TI Roms

Those are outdated ROM files. For the TI-82 and TI-85, versions 19 and 10 (respectively) are the final versions. For the TI-83, the current version is 1.08000, and the TI-86's latest is 1.6. (Damn picture files!) And also, if it's that easy to find the password--well he had to make it a little frustrating to avoid getting caught.

Someone has to update his web page. That's the only conclusion I can reach.

Reply to this comment    14 December 1998, 07:39 GMT

Re: Re: TI Roms

isn't there a TI-81 emulator on this site, with builtin rom? Noting that there's no link port on the 81, is this a program that acts like a ti81 or did someone open up the calc and copy the chip contents... And is it legal? I've always wondered this...

Reply to this comment    16 December 1998, 05:43 GMT

Re: Re: Re: TI Roms
(Web Page)

Go to the URL above and download PC-81 for DOS. It's the only emulator that TI recognizes, so it's obviously legal. The others are at most unrecognized by TI.

Reply to this comment    16 December 1998, 07:07 GMT

Re: TI Roms

This guy is trying to make a cheap buck off the equiv of warez, his "password" that gets him money from cyberthrill is 4840 boycott this site

Reply to this comment    14 December 1998, 01:48 GMT

Re: TI Roms
(Web Page)

this is complete bs. i owned the FIRST tiroms site (actually, gluvna did, but his wasn't as complete as mine was...) ANYWAY... it DOES NOT MATTER if the rokm version is an old one... i.e. 86 rom 1.2 is just as illegal as the 1.6... copyright law for software STATES that an older version (even those OUT OF PRODUCTION) is STILL copyrighted for 75 YEARS!! so stop this crap. no one could match my site, and my rom collection has helped many a programmer WITHOUT profiting from it... that makes it more illegal....

-lordgoat, OWNER of TIROMS

PS... tripod is VERY happy to DELETE ILLEGAL MATERIAL from its servers... stop spamming or your site vanishes.

Reply to this comment    14 December 1998, 14:20 GMT

Re: Re: TI Roms
Adam Wilson  Account Info

Um...your don't copyright things. The court only keeps the claim until it is needed. Hence, it is only illegal AFTER you get sued.

Reply to this comment    29 October 2001, 10:55 GMT

Re: TI Roms

The necessity to download a rom image is nothing more than a quick calculator fix(In most cases). If you gave a damn about graphing calculators, then you would probably have a calculator and link. People that download calculator rom images are (usually) just trying to get around shelling out the lettuce for a calculator and/or a link cable to get a legal rom image. The serious programmer who is using that rom for serious purposes is more than likely going to have the means to get his own rom. If for some reason that a valid need for downloading a rom image should come about(I am sure there are some special situations), then that person shouldn't have to suffer through the moronic process of obtaining a "password" that puts money into your greedy-ass pocket. What you are doing is not only illegal, but it is done in very very bad taste. Do you even own the calculators whose roms you have posted on your filthy, dirty site?

Reply to this comment    16 December 1998, 03:23 GMT

Re: Re: TI Roms
Justin Dodson  Account Info

I'll give you a reason. At school, I have most of my 4th block free (about an hour and a half) with nothing to do, and seeing as how they are blocking any and all game sites, I wanted to program for my calc. If anyone has ever used TI-Connect for programming, you will most likely agree with me it is much faster and easier to do on the computer than it is programming directly into the calculator. However, our school computers are running on Windows 98's with Pentium 2's. The computers freeze from just trying to install drivers. ((The computer nearly suffered from a heart attack when I asked it to compile a "Hello World" program in C++)) So I decided to instead download an emulator, but to my disdain found that I needed a ROM. And since I cannot connect from the computer to my calculator...this makes acquiring a ROM image very difficult indeed.
Now, I doubt there are too many people in the same situation as me, but I am just saying that there IS reason for someone to download a ROM other than just being too cheap to buy the quipment. I DO have a TI-83 (four of them actually), and a calc-to-computer link cable, thank you.

Reply to this comment    10 March 2005, 20:18 GMT

Re: Re: Article: "Respect in the TI Community"
Tangy Interactive
(Web Page)

You tell 'em. I am a BASIC programmer and have been for over a year. I've never bothered to learn ASM (though I am thinking about it), because of what I can STILL do with BASIC. The only limitation that I find with BASIC is that games won't run as fast as they will in ASM. On occasion, the graphics in ASM are better, but only because they can be drawn faster. So, many things can be done with BASIC where ASM is not needed at all. I think writing my programs in BASIC is an easy way to create them quickly. If I come up with an idea for a game in the morning, I'll probably have a portion of it working by the time I leave school the same day. ASM programmers are NOT superior to BASIC programmers in any way. It just means that they took the time to learn ASM, and (some) are trying to push it as far as it will go. People do that with BASIC as well. So don't act so selfish and powerful, all you ASM programmers out there. Us BASIC programmers are just as good as you.

Reply to this comment    19 December 1998, 04:20 GMT

BASIC respect

there should be respect for the BASIC programmers... but not a lot. BASIC is slower and takes up more space. It also doesn't have the flexibility of ASM. The only good thing about BASIC is that it is easy to program. Do you think that you will ever see a something like the 'FF: The Calling' Demo in BASIC? No. Why? because ASM is better, faster, and more memory- efficient.

Reply to this comment    22 December 1998, 17:43 GMT

Re: BASIC respect
The Big One

I agree partly with you: Basic programs are no good for games. However, for math and science programs, there is no competition. Basic programs rule. I'd like to see someone write an Asm program to, for example, draw conic sections, or any of the graphing programs. To implement as much functionality in Asm as there is in Basic (like trace, Max / Min, all the calculus things) the asm program would be huge. These are both different languages, with different purposes, and I think that people should acknoledge this fact and be done with it.

Reply to this comment    28 December 1998, 19:53 GMT

Re: Re: BASIC respect
Robin Kay  Account Info
(Web Page)

You can access any function in asm that you can from BASIC through rom calls.

Reply to this comment    6 March 2000, 02:02 GMT

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