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tinews.net Given Cease-and-Desist Letter by TI
Posted by Nick & Phil on 31 August 2000, 04:14 GMT

TI has requested, in a legal manner, that tinews.net stop using several of TI's copyrighted works on their page. Furthermore, they've requested that tinews.net change their name. tinews.net is not particularly pleased about this, and has, in response, posted this petition.

We, the ticalc.org staff, remind you to post your comments in light of the comment posting guidelines, and to make them tasteful and logical. Thank you.

Update (Nick): As you may have seen on tinews.net's home page, they are in the process of getting the matter cleared up with TI as we speak. They would like to thank everyone for their continued support during this ordeal.

 


The comments below are written by ticalc.org visitors. Their views are not necessarily those of ticalc.org, and ticalc.org takes no responsibility for their content.


Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
ikecam  Account Info
(Web Page)

TI should *help* sites like tinews and ticalc because they promote TI calculators. I understand them going against ROM distributions, but a direct attack on their user base just seems like bad bussiness.

     31 August 2000, 04:59 GMT

Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
TonyD7736
(Web Page)

Ti must be trying to get rid of their calculator department. If they are, This is a good start. If I was ending a part of my company, I would start by cutting my free advertising in 1/2 (Get rid of Tinews.net). Then I would get rid of the other half (Ticalc.org). We can only hope that TI isn't planning on doing this. They MUST be complete idiots. I just don't understand TI. I never have, and I guess I never will.

     31 August 2000, 05:13 GMT

Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Quark

WTF!! When is TI going to get there act together and give us calculator owners/developers the decent support they promised when the 89 was released?

Until TI can manage this they should keep there nose out of other people who are basically doing the job that TI has failed to do since the release of the 89. AMS is a god awful mess. What clown at TI decided to make a fragmented calc OS that would not be backwards compatible, and then decide to make major hardware revisions in mid production?

So what does this TI mess leave developers with besides headaches.
-Having to choose which ROM versions to support
-Having to make programs compatible for 2 different hardware configurations.
-Having to possibly update programs every time a new AMS ROM comes out.
-Having limited development information due to TI's procrastination on SDK.
-Having to turn to other delopers and informative web pages for development support and advice.

Now TI want's to cripple web pages like tinews because they merely post ROM images they are only hurting themselves. If TI is going to continue to make each successive ROM image non backwards compatible people will want to be able to go back to their old ROM image for compatibility. If Ti can't post a solution to do this then they shouldn't attack someone else who does.
Emailing TI is not an acceptable solution! It should be just as easy to downgrade your calc ROM as it is to upgrade

The issue of being able to use an emulator on a pc is silly. Who would use a calc emulator to do math when they are on a computer. Many math packages (even free ones) make the TI-89 emulator nothing more then a little toy.

HP on the other hand has there act together and will most likely be getting my future business and loyalty.

     31 August 2000, 05:17 GMT

Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
JrJinfinity  Account Info
(Web Page)

HP has my loyalty now, I am definately going to buy a HP-49g, it can do everything the ti-89 can, plus more. Furthermore, HP doesn't stick their head up their ass like TI is doing right now.

     31 August 2000, 05:42 GMT

Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Scott Noveck  Account Info
(Web Page)

> it can do everything the ti-89 can, plus more

At a much slower speed, with even fewer "normal" people knowing how to use it. If that's what you want, by all means, have fun.

     31 August 2000, 07:39 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
JrJinfinity  Account Info
(Web Page)

I've always been one for the technically advanced stuff, besides there's something cool about infrared.

     31 August 2000, 12:11 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Nathan Walters  Account Info

yeah, check out asm misc progs for many of the TI calcs on this site.. irlink....

     31 August 2000, 13:30 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Quark

The HP 49 and HP48 GX is much faster then the TI-89 in many areas. An Hp48 loaded with earble Meta Kernel ect is far supperior to a ti-89. As for normal people knowing how to use it there are many. HP understands things like stadards and support. Given a couple hours any normal person can learn RPN and how a HP functions. After that short learning curve you will see that the HP is much more powerfull and functional then the Ti calcs. BTW only the 48 has infared. I still feel a HP48 GX with ram cards is better then the HP49. Putt Erable for symbolic manip, Java/ Metakernel for pretty print stack operation, RainEq for equation writing, and Alg48 on a 1 meg card and you got the best calc available today.

     31 August 2000, 12:54 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
EvanMath

The only problem is, take a TI-89, press a few keys, and you can see how to use it for just about anything. Compare that to the few hours required to learn how to use an HP. I do prefer technical stuff, and therefor the HP-49G, but the fact is, TIs are easier to use, HPs more powerful.

     31 August 2000, 19:07 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Eric Greening  Account Info
(Web Page)

"At a much slower speed, with even fewer "normal" people knowing how to use it. If that's what you want, by all means, have fun."

I'm going to use my saying on computer/video games on this one. It goes like so: "The better the graphics, the worse the game." The HP-49G might be less advanced in some areas but, it can still outperform the TI-89 in every form-and-fashion. It has much more skilled developers (yes, even more skilled than *gasp* you), HP is and infinitely better than TI in the calculators. HP's AMS is written in pure ASM (have you seen the way the Saturn's ASM looks?!) while the pethetic one in the 89/92+'s is poorly written in C. It's 3D graphing is much faster. You have a ton more memory than the 89/92+. It was designed for people with a little more education than you (that's obvious by your statement). Get out of college and I doubt people with both 89 & 49G will not be seeing the 89 too much. HP's AMS' are backward compatible, you don't loose any data when updating, very stable (crashed once in the entire time I've had it (one year as of Jan. 1)).


"...with even fewer "normal" people knowing how to use it. ..."

What's wrong, too ignorant? Wouldn't be suprised, thinking about who I'm talking to (or about). The "HP-Community is actually a knowledgable group of people who know what they're talking about 95% of the time. Looking at this (and I have just barely scratched the surface), you should have, by now, decided to get HP instead of any other TI.

Glenn Murphy (A.K.A. greening)

"[The HP-49G] is God's own calculator" - U235

     1 September 2000, 06:29 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Jeff Meister  Account Info

Nicely flamed, Greening. :)

- Jeff (one[2])

     1 September 2000, 11:27 GMT


Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
David Phillips  Account Info
(Web Page)

Too bad the only thing that HP doesn't suck at is calculators. I have a $400 HP printer that does not work that I can get no support for from HP.

     2 September 2000, 14:13 GMT

Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
TimW Account Info

VTI is used mainly by programmers so they can test out their programs without the risk of seriously screwing up their calculator.

     31 August 2000, 23:07 GMT

Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Sebastian Reichelt  Account Info
(Web Page)

> Many math packages (even free ones) make the TI-89 emulator nothing more then a little toy.

True, but do you know how much good math programs cost? If people can download VTI and a ROM, why wouldn't they? The only thing is that TI would only hurt other companies, not themselves.

I, for one thing, stopped using VTI, and I only used it with my own calculator ROM image.

     1 September 2000, 20:44 GMT


Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
JaggedFlame Account Info

Can you really expect TI to make their AMS versions backwards-compatible with programs they explicity stated they wouldn't support?

     3 September 2000, 00:55 GMT

Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Kevin Ha  Account Info
(Web Page)

Technically and legally, Texas Instruments can't shut down the domain name of TINews. Unless one exploits the trademarks of another company, then Texas Instrument has no reason to do this. You can't really shut down a domain because it already took your company's name. For example - how many times did we see people making thousands---possibly millions of dollars from registering domain names of soon-to-be internet savvy companies? These companies couldn't tell them to shut their domain name down so that they can take it but on the other hand, they had to buy out the domain name.

And all of you guys who are hooting for HP - I agree. Man, have you guys visited the official HP calculator website? They (the HP team itself) post neat programs/games etc. for their calculators with screenshots, info, etc. They even update their site much more often than TI. When people from the HP community wants to look for a calculator program/article/tutorial or whatever, they don't even have to search through HP fan/community sites but all they have to do is go to the official HP site. Of course, the could different since it's been a long time since I visted that official HP site to look for some stuff for my big bro's HP 49G or something.

If the TI-89 was instead the HP-89 and was part of the HP community, all would be happy. HPCalc.org wouldn't have to exist to provide pleasure for the HP community since the official site alread does, as well.

     31 August 2000, 07:07 GMT

Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Scott Noveck  Account Info
(Web Page)

Actually, they very likely can. While the policies vary from registrar to registrar, most will happily oblige to a large corporation's wishes, and the legal standard followed in lawsuits is that if a domain name contains or refers to a trademark and contains content in the same subject area as the company holding the trademark, it can be taken, and with no content, it'll be busted for cybersquating.

While TI _shouldn't_ be able to take the domain, they sure as hell can tell him not to use any of their trademarks and make it useless, and many courts will bend the rules for such a large corporation.

     31 August 2000, 07:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Tim Buckingham  Account Info
(Web Page)

According to something I read earlier today, I should be able to keep the domain name legal by having a disclaimer. I think they're mad because people accidently goto www.tinews.net instead of www.tinews.com =/

     31 August 2000, 19:21 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Scott Noveck  Account Info
(Web Page)

I looked up the domain name dispute policy for your registrar, and it appears to me that the policy is ambiguous enought that they could give it to TI if such an influential company were to demand it. Take a look at section 4(a)(i) of namesecure's policy:

"(i) your domain name is identical or confusingly similar to a trademark or service mark in which the complainant has rights"

"Confusingly similar" is very broad, and seeing as most organizations won't contest such a claim from a company like TI, I would put my money on you (unjustly) losing any arbitration.

Regardless, without TI's trademarks, you'd have no content for the site and they would likely cite the prior existance of tinews.com to accuse you of cybersquatting, which is now being overcompensated for by having valid domains tossed =(

     1 September 2000, 06:19 GMT


Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Mike Grass Account Info
(Web Page)

<<Texas Instrument has no reason to do this>>

If distributing illegal ROM copies doesn't count as a reason in your book...

<<These companies couldn't tell them to shut their domain name down so that they can take it but on the other hand, they had to buy out the domain name.>>

So-called "squatting" is now illegal, and a company (or celebrity) can take legal action to get the domain name. However, this has very little to do with the case of TI-News.

<<And all of you guys who are hooting for HP>>

Every time some little thing from TI upsets the gamers of the TI community, it seems that hundreds pledge allegiance to HP. Well, TI isn't in the game business, but ultimately it comes down to which calculator you prefer. Having tried both the 89 and the 49g, I (personally) decided on the 89 to suit my needs. If some desire to switch to the HP, that is fine by me. However, you shouldn't just jump ship for trivial matters, and you really should carefully think about which machine will best suit your needs (most people who post strong flames can't bear to see that the new AMS version doesn't allow them to play their favorite game--buy a Game Boy!)

<<If the TI-89 was instead the HP-89 and was part of the HP community, all would be happy. HPCalc.org wouldn't have to exist to provide pleasure for the HP community since the official site alread does, as well. >>

This statement is nonsensical and borders on absurd.

I am in no way supporting TI's decision, I enjoyed TI-News as much as the next guy. However, if somebody ignores repeated legal threats, some action _must_ be taken, even if the repercussions are severe.

--Mike

     31 August 2000, 07:44 GMT

Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
lalu

I completely agree with Mike. TI-News should remove the ROMs and change their name.

     31 August 2000, 16:08 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Nivek Account Info
(Web Page)

no they should not have to change their name. But yes i think that haveing ROM's is wrong and should be discontinude.

     31 August 2000, 16:51 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Desist Letter by TI
Arthur O'Dwyer  Account Info
(Web Page)

> I completely agree with Mike. TI-News should remove the ROMs and change their name.

Anyone got a good replacement name for TI-News?
1. HP-News?
2. IT-News?
3. No-News?
4. TI-cked?
5. mcdonalds.com?

If TI-News is a TI fan site with News on it, it's certainly got the right to keep the name TI-News!
Really, now.

     1 September 2000, 19:52 GMT

Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
CircaX  Account Info
(Web Page)

But if we aren't to play games on them (or run any other program for that matter), why give the calcs the ability to do so in the first place? The games and such are made because the calc can support them.

     31 August 2000, 17:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
YodaToad  Account Info
(Web Page)

Actually, the programming isn't built in for games... It's built in for developing programs to help speed up much used calculations, etc, for math or sciences. The fact that there are games just comes from developers deciding to build games for the calculators instead of math/science programs.

-Erik Davidson
http://www.erikd.org

     31 August 2000, 20:27 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Nivek  Account Info
(Web Page)

actually this is not true. In the TI-83 handbook under the section about the Getkey function it says specifically that is usfull for making games. if you don't belive me go to the TI site search for handbook and you can reasd the whole thing for (get this coming from TI) FREE.

     1 September 2000, 00:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
JaggedFlame Account Info

That's true, but I don't think TI's definition of games (read: Super Deluxe Guessing Game 6.0 Enhanced Edition) and the programmers' definition of games (read: Super Mario Quest 1.10) coincide. ;-D

     3 September 2000, 01:00 GMT

Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Kevin Ha  Account Info
(Web Page)

Distributing ROMs does not deal with a site's domain name but instead, it deals with another issue (this time it's copyright issues).

Squatting? Let's say I made www.EBAYNEWS.com and it's "Electronic Birds And Yaks" news - can eBay shut me down? Don't think so - it relies purely on content most of the time. As for TI-News, they only provide content towards a specified community (the TI community). They could be in issues involving distributing copyrighted materials and whatnot, but that's another issue. All they have to do is get rid of the ROMs and copyrighted material, change their contents a bit, and Texas Instruments won't be able to do squat.

>>>If the TI-89 was instead the HP-89 - Absurd? Ok, if I didn't elucidate this clearly enough for you, I was indicating how much 'better' it would be if a company such as HP was managing a great calculator like the TI-89. They have MUCH better customer service, MUCH better content for the community, and MUCH more respect. How's that?

Dunno about you - but your post contained quite some criticism. For example: what exactly was the point of wasting several lines of space saying "blah blah on absurd"? Keep your own (somewhat criticizing/sentimental) thoughts to yourself, please.

     31 August 2000, 18:57 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Mike Grass Account Info
(Web Page)

<<Squatting? Let's say I made www.EBAYNEWS.com and it's "Electronic Birds And Yaks" news - can eBay shut me down? Don't think so - it relies purely on content most of the time.>>

And this is purely a content issue (well, from how I understand it)--TI-News was distributing illegal ROMs, and had no legal right to do so. You argue that they should just get rid of a few ROMs and copyright material--they have had a chance to do so, and have not. Tim stated that they received no cease-and-desist orders from TI before this instance; however, many other websites (and persons) have, and TI-News was aware of this. If TI wishes to be the sole distributor of ROMs, then that is their perogative. We can't deny them that just because we believe they are wrong.

<<How's that?>>

Still absurd. Fact is, TI created the 89, not HP. TI "manages" the 89, not HP. If you want to get help, you can most often go to discussion groups which TI hosts on their site. Many experienced users are there to help those who need it. However, if you think HP has more respect, better customer service, etc., then, by all means, purchase an HP. Hope you are happy with it.

<<Dunno about you - but your post[...]>>

Uh, OK. I have no idea what you don't know about me.

<<your post contained quite some criticism>>

Your point being? Constructive criticism is the best way to learn. English Teachers criticize your writing, beta testers criticize the program, and you criticize TI. I was not flaming, and I am sorry if you took offense at what I said.

<<Keep your own (somewhat criticizing/sentimental) thoughts to yourself, please.>>

Hrm. The purpose of writing is to express your thoughts. The main point of my post was not to express sentiments/criticism of your intelligence, I was merely expressing my own thoughts on why TI took this action. Once again, I sincerely apologize if you were insulted by anything I said.

<<what exactly was the point of wasting several lines of space saying "blah blah on absurd"?>>

I was attempting to get a clarified explanation of exactly what you were saying; apparently, it worked :)

Again, I deny any support of TI's action. I do, however, understand _why_ they would take this recourse.

--Mike

     31 August 2000, 23:42 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Kevin Ha  Account Info
(Web Page)

Gotta love that 'dissect & analyze' method you use for all your posts!

     1 September 2000, 08:10 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Mike Grass Account Info
(Web Page)

Gotta love how you can make a generalization of all of my posts based on a whole 2 posts! :)

     1 September 2000, 19:57 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Scott Noveck  Account Info
(Web Page)

Please refer to the United Nation's World Intellectial Property Organization (WIPO) arbitration over corinthians.com - the man who owned it was using it to post bible scripture from the book of the same name, but there was ample suspicion that he was just using the scripture to try to make the Corintians soccer team pay him for the domain. Needless to say, he lost. It may be wrong for such a domain to be taken, but it happens.

     1 September 2000, 06:22 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
JaggedFlame Account Info

<< Keep your own (somewhat criticizing/sentimental) thoughts to yourself, please. >>

Actually, I'd call _your_ post a criticizing one as well. What's the point of having a discussion board if everyone just says "I agree"? We'd just have one reply to each news post, and then you'd might as well just take out the entire discussion board capability.

     3 September 2000, 01:04 GMT


Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
AuroraBoriales

I hate to say this, but i really do suspect that TI has done something with you people who "support" the killing of ti-news.

     31 August 2000, 19:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Jonas Lööf

Made them alpha testers of the 89/92+ SDK? ;-)

     31 August 2000, 21:14 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: tinews.net Given Cease-and-Decist Letter by TI
Scott Noveck  Account Info
(Web Page)

I can't say that I haven't discussed the issue with Mike and Andrew over ICQ, but I do believe that the shared logic is a byproduct of some of the characteristics that qualified us as testers, rather than an effect of the testing itself.

Although I did get a nice Jazz CD in the mail the other day (disclaimer: inside joke).

     1 September 2000, 06:25 GMT

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