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   Home :: Community :: Surveys :: Do you think calculators with computer algebra systems should be allowed on standardized tests?
Results
Choice Votes   Percent
No 91 21.8%   
Yes 327 78.2%   

Survey posted 2000-02-27 20:36 by Andy.

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Re: Do you think calculators with computer algebra systems should be allowed on standardized tests?
David  Account Info
(Web Page)

Technology is becoming more of a part of our lives every day. Calculators today are much better than they were ten years ago. And, they will keep getting better and more affordable. If most people spend a third of the time learning how to do things on their graphing calculators that they spend playing games on them, then I think that more people would generally agree that using calculators on tests is fair. Everybody has the same advantage. If you have spent the time to learn how to use your calculator well, I think that you deserve the higher grade.

This is just my thoughts on this, and I understand that some people would disagree. Perhaps the TI-89/92(+) is a little bit of an overkill, but these technically use AMS (Advanced Mathematics Software), and not CAS (Computer Algebra System) like the TI-83 uses. I donít see anything wrong with using a CAS-based system on standardized tests.

Reply to this comment    28 February 2000, 04:29 GMT


Re: Re: Do you think calculators with computer algebra systems should be allowed on standardized tests?
The_Professor  Account Info
(Web Page)

A true Computer Algebra System is where you can work with undefined variables. The Advanced Mathematics Software contains the CAS. The AMS is the ROM version - just look in the about box and it says:
"Advanced Mathematics Software version 2.03" or version 1.05 or version 1.00
CAS is how it factors, integrates, simplifys, solves equations, ect...

Reply to this comment    29 February 2000, 01:52 GMT

Re: Do you think calculators with computer algebra systems should be allowed on standardized tests?
meingts Account Info

I haven't voted yet. (I believed it depended on the nature of the test, but as it turns out...anyway) In California we have the STAR test, and we are not allowed to use calculators. Even without the calculators the test was somewhat of an insult (it was a 30 minute test which we were given 90 minutes for, roughly). I would guess then that calculators are NOT to be allowed on standardized tests, and that the tests should use numbers that are easy enough to work with without use of a calculator.

Reply to this comment    28 February 2000, 05:21 GMT

Re: Do you think calculators with computer algebra systems should be allowed on standardized tests?
ikecam  Account Info
(Web Page)

Okay, people...

The point of a test is to find out how much you know. If I were to take the AP Calculus exam (I don't have to; I already have 13 hours of college-level math credit), then I would have to be able to integrate and differentiate and solve differential equations. Those are some of the things being tested. They want to know if you know any calculus.

But if you have a TI-89 or 92(+), you don't have to know how to do that. You can simply use the Integrate() function and all those other nifty things. The fact is, you don't really have to know anything about calculus, as long as you have a CAS.

The CAS is a way of being lazy. It should only be used when the computations in question would be routine (e.g. finding limits in my Discrete Math class). Otherwise, you shouldn't get to use it.

Reply to this comment    28 February 2000, 05:24 GMT


Re: Re: Do you think calculators with computer algebra systems should be allowed on standardized tests?
john bellinger  Account Info

This is absolutely the most ignorant comment I have EVER heard. But, you did profess ignorance, so I suppose I shan't have to flame you into oblivion. But the reality of the AP Calc exam (which, BTW I did get a 5 on) goes as follows. Half of the test you're allowed to use a calculator, including my lovely 89. half of the test, you AREN'T. No calculator whatsoever. Simple as that. In case you were wondering, the highest you can get without getting any of the non-calculator part right is a 2. A 2 is not a passing grade ANYWHERE. So all of you jealous people who want to whine and cry that I had an unfair advantage and think it shouldn't be allowed (I had like 10 in my calc class) can go stick their calculators where the sun don't shine. They don't even know how to use them to their potential anyway, hell I had to (in 12th grade AP calculus) show 5 how to CHANGE THE CONTRAST on their 83s and 86s, because none of them had ever cracked the manual. Symbolic manipulation is an awesome too, but it won't take your tests for you. Not real tests, anyway.

Reply to this comment    28 February 2000, 07:50 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Do you think calculators with computer algebra systems should be allowed on standardized tests?
ikecam  Account Info
(Web Page)

The Oberlin College (a fairly well-known private school in Ohio) Calc II entrence exam can be passed with a B- by someone who doesn't even know trigonometry, as long as they have a calc with symbolic manipulation. This fact has been proven by repeated trials by volunteers because the school was trying to find out whether it was going to allow 68k calcs in its math program.

Reply to this comment    2 March 2000, 01:09 GMT

Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
Rafael Andrist  Account Info

All students in our school have a TI-89, they must buy it, like a book with translations or something else. That's because the calcs with CAS are allowed in tests. Every stupid can solve an equation and therefor we have calcs. So in tests we must solve complex problems by thinking and the calc does the stupid work.

Reply to this comment    28 February 2000, 19:06 GMT


Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
TheMadTickler

You are lucky to go to a school where everyone can afford a 150 dollar calculator. Try going to a inner city school with that puppy. It would be stolen from you before you even stepped off the bus. If you use your calc to its full potential, it will do both the stupid work AND the smart work for you. This is opposed to poor kids who have to do them both themselves and work HARDER to get the same score you got without even thinking.

Reply to this comment    29 February 2000, 04:12 GMT

Re: Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
David Strauss  Account Info
(Web Page)

Most people in advanced math courses are in high school and hence, can have jobs. I have a summer job. Even though I don't live in the inner city, I still pay for many of my electronics. A year ago, I spent all of my summer job earnings to pay for $1000 toward the cost of my computer. Less than six months ago, I paid $300 of my own money for a PDA to organize my schedule and assignments. The organizer alone is twice what a TI-89 costs. You also don't have to be a CEO to earn the money. Bagging groceries or delivering pizza will suffice. I only get paid around $4.50 to $5.00 an hour for my job since it's seasonal work.

Additionally, people who care about their high school grades and SAT scores are probably planning to go to college, which costs a good amount more than $150, even with scholarships and financial aid.

Regarding theft, I keep my TI-89 in my binder, which is in my backpack and I take with me all around my campus. Only people carelessly leaving their calculator around would get it stolen. This viewpoint is not just derived from my own district. I've traveled to schools all around Texas and haven't had any problem with my calculator being stolen even when out of my control or left in my binder on some table.

Reply to this comment    1 March 2000, 03:05 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
TheMadTickler

Not all people in advanced math courses are able to get jobs. I am a sophomore in Algebra 2, I live too far to work to a job site and my mother is not planning to buy a vehicle anytime soon.

Reply to this comment    1 March 2000, 22:34 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
TheMadTickler

Sorry, didn't mean to post this. I'll beat myself later.

Reply to this comment    1 March 2000, 23:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
TheMadTickler

Not all people in advanced math courses are able to get jobs. I am a sophomore in Algebra 2, I live too far to work to a job site and my mother is not planning to buy a vehicle anytime soon. Just because YOU have the rescources to get a job to pay for your electronics, doesn't mean everyone can. Also, I know people who have actually MADE MONEY going to college. The trick is to know what financial aid to apply for. If you get national merit, thats a free ride to any college you'd care to go to. If you can make it to college than you can probably get grants to buy yourself a calculator. The point I'm trying to make is that standardized tests are designed to test all students equally. Thus the name "STANDARDized tests." These calculators will give some students an unfair advantage over others. This means students who had to, for example, work equations out will be compared to those who just plugged the equation into the solver.

Reply to this comment    1 March 2000, 22:49 GMT


Re: Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
Laura Thompson  Account Info

You know I usually hurt people who get two close to my calculator. Maybe you're different.

Reply to this comment    2 March 2000, 05:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
TheMadTickler

I am sure you probably could. Let me guess, one glance and they get turned to stone.

Reply to this comment    3 March 2000, 04:46 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
Laura Thompson  Account Info

Yep, I also spend several hours feeding the snakes on my head. In fact I'm not really Laura Thompson, my real name is MEDUSA! :)

Laura

Reply to this comment    4 March 2000, 04:42 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
Rafael Andrist  Account Info

Remember that Medusa isn't alive anymore.

Reply to this comment    4 March 2000, 10:59 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Calcs with CAS should be allowed (and in my school they are allowed)
Laura Thompson  Account Info

No! That's...that's a lie spread by my political enemies. It's the commies I tell you. Gotta go, their tracking my IP address even as we speak.

Reply to this comment    5 March 2000, 00:23 GMT

No way.
Cha$ Kapeno  Account Info

I think they should not be used. Don't get me wrong, I use my ti89 and ti86 a lot. Anytime we do something in math I write a program to do it. I think that if you use programs they should only be ones you write, because that proves you have an understanding at what goes on. The only math prog I used not written by myself was Kirk's cymbol to simplify radicals(this was before my 89) because it would be hard to write one in BASIC. When I took the PSAT's I scored a near perfect in math, I didn't understand some quiestions but my 89 really helped me. I didn't feel right about using it, but hey, it's a good score. The 89/92 family gives its users(who ACTUALLY KNOW HOW TO USE IT) a very unfair advantage in a lot of things, hey I even wrote a program to conjugate french verbs! But I don't think I wouldn't have recieved nearly as high a score without the CAS of my trusty 89.


-Cha$

Reply to this comment    28 February 2000, 21:49 GMT

Re: No way.
aoejedi  Account Info
(Web Page)

I wrote a BASIC radical simplification program: it's on my page under software, and it's called radical (it's for the 83)

Reply to this comment    29 February 2000, 06:18 GMT

Re: No way.
Eagle2718 Account Info
(Web Page)

you used your TI-89 on the PSAT???

Reply to this comment    29 February 2000, 22:59 GMT

Re: Re: No way.
Cha$ Kapeno  Account Info

you better believe it, the CAS murdered the test, literally, i tore it to SHREDS

Reply to this comment    1 March 2000, 00:55 GMT


Re: Re: No way.
The_Professor  Account Info
(Web Page)

To you, and everyone else who thinks you can't use the 89 on the SAT I, SAT II, PSAT, or APCalc test (and other AP tests), you actually can use the 89 on those tests. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. It even says right on the package: "Permitted for use on College Board Tests: AP, SAT and PSAT/NMSQT" and you can check the college board website if you still aren't sure.

Reply to this comment    1 March 2000, 23:54 GMT

Re: Re: Re: No way.
Eagle2718 Account Info
(Web Page)

yeah, I know it's allowed...I just find it unnecessary. 2 years in a row, I scored a 760-770 (1 question wrong) on the PSAT with nothing but a TI-35...and I know several people who scored 800's with a scientific as well.

Reply to this comment    2 March 2000, 02:31 GMT


Re: Re: Re: No way.
Daniel Bishop  Account Info

I didn't know that! Not that it matters. I got an 800 on SAT math and I only used a TI-30.

Reply to this comment    18 April 2000, 03:03 GMT


Re: No way.
Rafael Andrist  Account Info

It's very easy to conjugate French Verbs. The problem is: do you know how to use the forms (Subjonctif, Conditionnel etc.).
PS: Is it allowed to use calcs in French tests?

Reply to this comment    4 March 2000, 11:03 GMT


Re: Re: No way.
Laura Thompson  Account Info

You know, I've found out that I'm not allowed to use my calculator on English test. What a shame.

Reply to this comment    5 March 2000, 00:25 GMT

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