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ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
Posted by Michael on 17 May 2006, 01:39 GMT

[ClosedGL]We first reported on ClosedGL over a year ago, and since then David Teitlebaum has been working on improvements. The new ClosedGL Release 9.9999 is greatly improved over the previous version. ClosedGL is a library for the TI-89 which provides an interface to various graphics routines. If you aren't a C TI-89 programmer, then just look at the amazing screenshots.

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Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
Jason Malinowski  Account Info
(Web Page)

Two new screenshots with the nifty dithering have been posted.

Reply to this comment    19 May 2006, 01:13 GMT


Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
benryves  Account Info
(Web Page)

They're beautiful. Amazing work!

Reply to this comment    19 May 2006, 13:17 GMT

Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

I find it sad that you aren't willing to release the source code for your library. This is especially bad for libraries, because we don't and never will guarantee a stable ABI (Application Binary Interface) for TIGCCLIB. So if TIGCC changes, closed-source static libraries have to be recompiled by their authors or become useless. There have been a few closed-source static libraries in the past. None of them works anymore. (The authors aren't recompiling them and nobody else can. In one case, the author has even lost the source code, something which just cannot happen if you release it.) TIGCC works hard on source compatibility, but not binary compatibility. It is usually not needed because TIGCCLIB is statically linked, so if you rebuild your project anyway, you can also recompile everything. Closed-source static libraries are the one use case where that breaks, but I'm not going to guarantee a stable ABI (which keeps me from doing improvements, see all the arguments against a stable Linux kernel ABI for binary modules, they apply just as well to TIGCCLIB) just for these.

In addition to those practical considerations, your source code would probably also be useful for learning purposes.

Reply to this comment    19 May 2006, 01:56 GMT

Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
nyall Account Info
(Web Page)

That and you might get help. If the source was open someone who know asm could try implimenting 64 bit fixed point numbers.

Reply to this comment    19 May 2006, 02:51 GMT


Re: Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

64 bit? Sure you want that? It would be faster than floats, but still, long long operations are slow! 32 bits is the maximum that makes sense IMHO. Maybe even 16 bits for (relatively) fast multiplication/division (not that mulu/divu/muls/divs are speed wonders, but they're definitely faster than __mulsi3 and _du32u32/_ds32s32) if the low accuracy can be tolerated.

Reply to this comment    19 May 2006, 06:17 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
nyall Account Info
(Web Page)

The closedGL doc states that the previous attempt at fixed point did not have enough numerical robustness. I'm assuming that first attempt was with 32 bit fixed point. So 64 bit fixed point should be able to handle it.

yeah 64 bit fixed point is slow but compared to ti's BCD floats its considerably faster.

Reply to this comment    19 May 2006, 18:25 GMT

Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
jesse frey  Account Info

can someone explain the reasoning behind making this program closed scource? you do give the program away for free, why not the scource?

Reply to this comment    19 May 2006, 15:43 GMT

Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
Tyler C  Account Info
(Web Page)

I agree with Kevin on this one, since it is free why not release the source? I could see reasons for certain programs like HW3Patch not to release the Source Code because it could pose as an extreme threat at the destruction of a calculator if an abusive programmer got a hold of the source, but there is really no reason for not releasing the source in this case. :)

Reply to this comment    20 May 2006, 04:35 GMT


Re: Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
burntfuse  Account Info
(Web Page)

True, and then people could even use stripped-down or modified versions if they needed slightly different functions. I know I can never use a routine as it is, I always have to rewrite half of it and tweak the rest to make it do just what I want, and a lot of other programmers probably are the same way.

Reply to this comment    20 May 2006, 16:28 GMT


Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
Vasantha Crabb  Account Info
(Web Page)

You're the one with the attitude problem, Kevin. You're using your position as a TIGCC developer to try and strong-arm people into making everything open source. We know you don't like closed source, but not everyone shares your position.

The problem isn't with closed source libraries, the problem is your refusal to provide a stable ABI. You will argue that you want to be able to add features, but that's silly. You can easily add features without breaking compatibility.

Example: Mac OS X 10.2 and later support lazy binding, so a library built to target OS X 10.1 won't link with an executable being built for OS X 10.1, but a library built to target Mac OS X 10.1 can be linked with an executable built for OS X 10.2.

You either refuse to or are incapable of designing a supportable ABI. I tend to believe the former, considering how often you try to use this "feature" as a way to bully developers of closed source libraries.

Reply to this comment    9 June 2006, 06:49 GMT

Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
thetiguy  Account Info

Sweet... but does this work with a TI-89 Titanium. If it doesn't, is ther a way to make it work???

Reply to this comment    19 May 2006, 20:07 GMT

Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
Tyler C  Account Info
(Web Page)

Anything that works for TI-89 will work for the 89T if you use HW3Patch on the 89T and possibly Ghost Buster on the program.

Reply to this comment    20 May 2006, 04:33 GMT


Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
lifeiscalc Account Info

It crashed my TI-89Ti, but works fine for the 89. I tried to compile it for the 89ti, but it was not compiling in tigcc for me.

Reply to this comment    22 May 2006, 14:33 GMT


Re: Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
thetiguy  Account Info

Which one... The HW3 Patch or Ghostbuster???

Reply to this comment    22 May 2006, 19:00 GMT

Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
thetiguy  Account Info

What's this library going to be used for???

Reply to this comment    20 May 2006, 22:37 GMT


Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
anykey  Account Info
(Web Page)

Cool screenshots.

Reply to this comment    22 May 2006, 22:33 GMT


Re: Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
thetiguy  Account Info

That's it???

Reply to this comment    23 May 2006, 00:05 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
leginuoh  Account Info

I know this is a bit off topic, well, it has to do with graphics, but does anyone, and i mean anyone, know what is required for Ti greyimage by Lexou, located in the windows graphics archives, to work? it is supposed to be able to convert bmps to grayscale but instead it shows an error everytime I try to compile. I have seen examples submitted to the archive which use this program so I know that somebody got it to work.

Reply to this comment    23 May 2006, 02:23 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
burntfuse  Account Info
(Web Page)

Try e-mailing the author (if you've already read the README.txt, that is). You'll get a better answer and won't annoy anyone with completely off-topic posts.

Reply to this comment    25 May 2006, 19:47 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
calkfreak83  Account Info
(Web Page)

Wow.. somehow that sounds reeeeally familiar.. anybody see the survey? haha

Reply to this comment    26 May 2006, 00:00 GMT

Re: ClosedGL v9.9999 for TI-89
Jan Kozak  Account Info
(Web Page)

Hi,
It's amazing how great diethering looks on screenshot :)

Can someone post here how fast it is?
I mean how many polygons/vertexes it can compute and display per second (can be not accuarrely).
I don't have Ti calculator, so I can't do it by myself.

Thank You.

Reply to this comment    20 June 2006, 11:50 GMT

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