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Wolfenstein83 Released
Posted by Michael on 22 March 2003, 22:55 GMT

Peter Bucher has released Wolfenstein83, a raycaster game for the 83 and 83+ with remarkable graphics. In fact, the graphics are some of the best you will ever see on the 83+. Gameplay is slick as well, and there's an on-calc map editor. There are nine included maps, so you will have plenty of material to play with. This is definitely worth checking out if you have a 83-series calculator.

 


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Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Gerhalt Account Info

Sweet, this looks very cool. I am going to download it right away. It bears a striking resemblance to Gemeni, though (At least by the screenshot). It looks like a good program! The on-calc editor is a nice touch too. Now to download it...

Gerhalt

     22 March 2003, 23:06 GMT

Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Gerhalt Account Info

[The text of this article has been removed by a news editor due to violation of the acceptable use policy.]

     22 March 2003, 23:12 GMT


Not GEMINI!
Ti-89_Coder Account Info

I just looked at the readme for Wolfenstein 3D and it makes no refrences to GEMINI. In addition, the author describes the versions his engine went through in the history. So, apparently, it is a completely new engine, unrelated to GEMINI. (Wow! 2 good raycasting engines on the 83!)

     22 March 2003, 23:21 GMT


Re: Not GEMINI!
angelboy Account Info
(Web Page)

Either way, this still looks pretty cool!

     22 March 2003, 23:38 GMT

Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
Doug Temple Account Info

Well, congratulations to Peter for making a great assembly program.
Hopefully soon the program will be ported to other calcs (esp. TI86) since I don't have a TI-83-series calc.
I can really appreciate how great that game looks because I know how much work must have gone into it...
I've tried programming in assembly myself and I keep running into problems when it comes to putting sprites onto the screen.

Anyway, congratulations to Peter and hope your future programs are this good!

-Doug

     23 March 2003, 01:04 GMT

Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
James Montelongo Account Info

I pretty sure that both Gemini and Wolfenstein 3D were orginally Maze 3d. Gemini changed allot since the Raycaster demos.
Maze 3d was on the 86 why would should it be ported, It could just be altered to have enemys, guns,...

     23 March 2003, 02:48 GMT

Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

I wouldn't count on it, 86 is a dead machine, I think, fewer an fewer programs are out fot that calc, and TI is making pgrms for 83 and 89 to assemble 85/86 special funcions.
The game looks very cool, does it support external nivels?
That was the Gemini problem, It was too short.

     23 March 2003, 13:47 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yes! External levels are what makes a game expand. People can play it and make their own levels to share!

     23 March 2003, 18:00 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
benryves  Account Info
(Web Page)

This game looks rather good...

     24 March 2003, 09:01 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Uh-huh, you know, witht the FAT engine for the TI-89, you'd think more 3D games would be made for it...

     25 March 2003, 00:24 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
benryves  Account Info
(Web Page)

I know, there should be more... Wait till I gt some money, then I can get an 89 or similar...

     25 March 2003, 09:06 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

You're a good programmer, you could make some good contributions to the 89 folder if you got one... :) The thing that's so great about C for the 89 is... you can make some pretty good programs and still maintain speed. Look at Alien Invasion... that was C, wasn't it? It's a featured program. As long as you use _rowread(), your C programs usually won't be really slow. (I think I overused the adverbs in that last sentence)

     26 March 2003, 00:09 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

Someone should port Wolfenstein to 89 don't you think?

     26 March 2003, 09:39 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
ac  Account Info

No can do. Wolfenstein is a z80 ASM program. It would have to be completely rewritten to work on the 89. If you want an FPS, see Corridor 92. It's pretty fun.
w00t!

     27 March 2003, 17:58 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

what about an emulator for TI89 emulating the TI83?

     27 March 2003, 21:34 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

What!? That would be even more unlikely. Emulators for totally different calcalators are a no-no.

     27 March 2003, 23:49 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
garyanddepleatedteamup  Account Info

possible....impractical

     29 March 2003, 20:14 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

Someone should port Wolfenstein to 89 don't you think?

     26 March 2003, 09:39 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
benryves  Account Info
(Web Page)

I thought there was a Wolfenstein port for FAT...

     26 March 2003, 14:16 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Go ahead and do it.

Port seems like a poor choice of word there... how about TOTALLY REWRITE IT FROM SCRATCH! There's not really any coorelation from z80 to 68k or vice versa. They're just too different.

     27 March 2003, 01:03 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: NOT GEMINI!!!
johno doeo  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yea theres def. no connection. i think he wrote it from scratch, its still awesome. Also check out this funny website (in the link above).

     27 March 2003, 01:47 GMT


Porting
angelboy Account Info
(Web Page)

Peter said in the README that he won't port it because he doesn't know how, but someone who dies should contace him.

     23 March 2003, 20:30 GMT

Re: Porting
RCTParRoThEaD_ Account Info
(Web Page)

um, if someone dies, then they can't contact anybody because they are DEAD!!!

     23 March 2003, 21:11 GMT


Re: Re: Porting
benryves  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yeah, I wondered about that too... maybe Peter is into these ouija board jobbies and the occult?

     24 March 2003, 08:54 GMT


Re: Porting
angelboy Account Info
(Web Page)

My error, it should have read:

Peter said in the README that he won't port it because he doesn't know how, but someone who des should contact him

     24 March 2003, 23:29 GMT


Re: Re: Porting
Cl0nedB0y  Account Info
(Web Page)

'someone who des '
you can't even do a correction properly. As for the 2 comments regarding the talking to the dead, why would they contact him? Are there souls that scour this site looking to aid people in order to free themselves from this accursed realm?

     27 March 2003, 22:54 GMT


Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
Theycallmeyams  Account Info

Cool or not, It still takes up a crap loaad of memory. I'll wait until I get an SE before I download it to my calc.

-W-

     23 March 2003, 17:53 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
angelboy Account Info
(Web Page)

If you don't have much else on the calc, it will fit

     23 March 2003, 20:31 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
Theycallmeyams  Account Info

Ah, but there in lies the problem, I already have over 35 games on my calculator. I have to garbagecollect after every three games. I have no more room. And I spend a fortune on batteries. Man, I need an SE.

-W-

     23 March 2003, 21:22 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
Ronald Teune  Account Info
(Web Page)

Or you need to know about groups instead of just archived progs and about rechargeable batteries :o)

     24 March 2003, 11:36 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
benryves  Account Info
(Web Page)

Groups are fine so long as the program doesn't have writeback...

     24 March 2003, 12:15 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
Theycallmeyams  Account Info

My sentiments exactly.

     24 March 2003, 12:21 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
Theycallmeyams  Account Info

I've tried the grouping programs, sing someone else a test subject. I did not find it very eaisy to use, the constant clearing of ram, unpacking, clearing of ram..... Besides, I am a paitent man, I can wait until the vendors become senceable again. And I just got some rechargables. Thanks.

     24 March 2003, 12:20 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
angelboy Account Info
(Web Page)

Does your ram clear every time you do something with groups?

     24 March 2003, 23:30 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
Theycallmeyams  Account Info

NO, I havew to delet all the programs in RAM every I unpack a different group. The quickest way to do this is clearing my RAM.

     25 March 2003, 00:58 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not GEMINI!
Theycallmeyams  Account Info

However, for Mirage os users, you can make it not unarchive the programs, just copy them int RAM. You must un-x the Allow Write-Baxks in Archived Programs, in the misc. field. This will save me enough on batteries to feed a small town.

-W-

     25 March 2003, 05:37 GMT

Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yeah, this game looks great. Must... get... an... 83+se...

     23 March 2003, 17:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Geek_Productions Account Info

Having an 83+ SE is GREAT, but it sucks when programming for regular 83+ in basic because it's so much faster. (See basicavalanche.zip to get my point. I made it so that it runs well on a SE. 'Tis slower than mollasses on a reg. 83+)

     24 March 2003, 23:55 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

Well I think TI83+SE shouldn't be so compatible with the TI83+ in basic, I hate basic, it's slow, I think they should give me the plus 128 KB of RAM and run asm at the same speed, SE is not iqual to the + the plus rans slowly than an SE that's why I loose so much in Phantom, also the archive memory is soo big but after a few programs in the archive the RAM gets smaller because, I believe, it has to map all the programs, so after a few dozens of programs in the archive I can't play Gemini anymore, it hasn't memory enough for unarchive, so I have to go and delete a few prgms in archive so RAM can run the Gemini.
TI OS should enable greyscale, watch and bigger memory all things that hardware supports and TI wouldn't allow because the so talked retrocompatibility with TI83 and TI83+, aghhhhhh...
Ok... I'm Ok now :P

     25 March 2003, 23:40 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

iqual? lol

But I didn't know that the BASIC speed was different.. it really is? Why? That's kinda strange...

     26 March 2003, 00:37 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
angelboy Account Info
(Web Page)

The processor is 2.5 faster, so BASIC must be about that much faster. (I think)

     26 March 2003, 00:49 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Michael O'Brien  Account Info

Are the z80 procs 8-bit or 16-bit?
How are they different from 68k procs?

     26 March 2003, 01:42 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

Didn't you hear about Spectrum Z80, and Game Boy classic/Pocket/Color?
these are all consoles of 8-bits that use the Z80 prossesor, that's why I'm kind of surprised by the new 3D engines of Gemini and Wolfenstein, I tough it wasn't possible in real-time with a 8-bit cpu

     26 March 2003, 09:33 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Michael O'Brien  Account Info

I didn't know that they use the z80 proc.

     26 March 2003, 16:21 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
GavinO  Account Info
(Web Page)

cause they're cheap

     26 March 2003, 18:18 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
KermMartian  Account Info
(Web Page)

Definitely!

The gameboy is the most well-known, although it is not as easy as one might think to port Gameboy games to the calc (speed, program size, screen size...)

     28 March 2003, 19:25 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

And the whole cartridge is a ROM, not just a program, right?

     28 March 2003, 22:01 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

yes, he cartridge usually has aditional chips, like S-RAM for saving the game, internal clock, and even flash chips (In GameBoy Camera), but what I like to see is the SNES chips, from the Super FX chip (a 8 bits chip running at 10 MHz, passing trough the Super FX2 at 20 MHz, to the SD1 chip, no mencioning the DD1 and the descompression packs of Street Fighter II alpha and the Star ocean, awesome console, and awesome games, ahhh, good old times

     29 March 2003, 21:27 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

That would be cool if someone here made gameboy games... (for on-computer emulators... we don't have the machines to make the cartridges)

     30 March 2003, 18:54 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Nintendo and Gameboy are 8-bit... but what processor does the NES use?

     28 March 2003, 22:02 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

NES used a Z80 too, I think

     29 March 2003, 20:41 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

That's cool... then someday.. I COULD make one, well, at least for an emulator, assuming there are compilers out there for that. (My dream when I was five, lol)

     30 March 2003, 18:56 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Evan Flynn Account Info

The NES used the 6502.

The Commodore 64 used a variant of it, the 6510.

     2 April 2003, 05:07 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Oh yeah... that's why I always thought it would be SO COOL if all of us z80 programmers learned to make Game Boy programs... morons would actually buy that, even if it was tron-like :) (I'd get soooo much rip-off money for my stinky progs, lol)

     27 March 2003, 01:10 GMT


Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
yahoolian

The Nintendo cartridge signing system is designed to keep low quality games out, something that a few other consoles suffered from: massive amounts of cheap $5 games.

     3 April 2003, 20:36 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
343GuiltySpark  Account Info
(Web Page)

Well, Clem DID write Maze 3D a while back, and it runs really smoothly (and fast). For some reason, though, everybody seems to overlook that. Remember, before there was Gemini and Wolfenstein on the 83+ and FAT on the 89, there was Maze 3D on the 86.

     27 March 2003, 02:16 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Adam Rust  Account Info

so that is the reason my Area Program that i created for the ti-83+ dosent work on the SE, well, i think it is wrong.

Adam

     27 March 2003, 06:34 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Geek_Productions Account Info

Yeah, the basic speed is different. All basic programs are run through the OS, and because of the processor speed difference, 83+SE s go through the "list" of commands faster. When I get a chance I'll post the newer version of avalanche (Renamed 'Avalanche!'). In this version your 'x' moves twice as fast, and on the 83+, the'x' moves at about the rate of the icicles on the SE. This indicates a huge difference in speeds.

     28 March 2003, 20:20 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

The man should move as fast as the icicles in each version.

Loop
[icicle code]
[man moving code]
Goto loop

One can't go faster than the other.

     28 March 2003, 22:03 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

(cont. of above)

Unless you have it set it, but the different model shouldn't cause one to go faster than the other.

     28 March 2003, 22:04 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Michael O'Brien  Account Info

I believe grayscale has more to do with the hardware...I don't know

     26 March 2003, 01:29 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
angelboy Account Info
(Web Page)

Unless if they use the grayscale library

     26 March 2003, 01:32 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

I think hardware supports it, but the TI-OS locks it
Last year I saw some glitches while using 1.14 and while using some graphics well, I realy could see various colors in the same graph, it was very strange but I'm positive TIOS locks it

     26 March 2003, 09:48 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Joe Pemberton  Account Info
(Web Page)

The LCD driver on the SE is set by default to need the extra delays between writes like the original 83+ LCD. If I recall correctly, however, there is a way to speed up the LCD driver on the SE through one of the ports, which could make grayscale a bit more feasible on the 83 SE.

     27 March 2003, 02:07 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Basic is always slower than molasses.

     26 March 2003, 00:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
343GuiltySpark  Account Info
(Web Page)

Mainly because the calculator has to run the program through an interpreter during runtime. Then, the interpreter has to give the interpreted code to the processor to process.

     27 March 2003, 02:17 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

I know... that's the same reason why QBASIC and all other interpreter-read languages are slow. Compiled languages tend to be much faster (C, ASM...)

     27 March 2003, 23:56 GMT

Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
calcman03  Account Info

I agree with you that this game is similar to Gemini. When Gemini was released I said the game looks like Wolf 3d. I believe the author of GeminI allowed programmers to borrow his 3d engine for other games.

     26 March 2003, 16:40 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

If that were true I guess it should be mentioned is the readme, what doesn't happen, said that, I don't think so

     26 March 2003, 20:23 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
343GuiltySpark  Account Info
(Web Page)

Well, all raycasting engines follow the same principles, and on a TI-83+, there's not much room for variation, so pretty much all raycasters for the TI-83+ will look similar.

     27 March 2003, 02:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Chickendude  Account Info
(Web Page)

And they were actually working on them around the same times, except I think Peter started working a little later, but their codes are original--nothing copied :)

     28 March 2003, 21:43 GMT

Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
johno doeo  Account Info
(Web Page)

This game looks awesome, hey check out my webpage link too!!! very funny

     27 March 2003, 01:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

Well the graphics are so good that mainly to the screen size I don'think they need to improve

     28 March 2003, 09:30 GMT


Gripes
Xathien  Account Info
(Web Page)

SOMEONE had to gripe about this game. I guess it's my job.
Anyway, at first, it looked pretty nice. I noticed that it was a bit slow(even on my SE), but I figured that was by choice of programmer or because of the contrast effect, so I overlooked this. However, the transparancies annoyed me to no ends. Such as, you could hardly tell one object from the wall behind it: e.g. you can't tell what an object is (I'm guessing it's a well like in Wolf3D), because the wall appears through it. Also, you can hardly tell one object from the next. You can't discern a man from a dog from a weed from a flag. And even if it is an enemy, you can't tell it's attacking you, unless you're actually watching your health. Otherwise, it's quite a good game, a very nice port of Wolf3D. I like the light/dark rooms effect, even if it sacrifices a bit of processor speed. Thank you for this game.

     28 March 2003, 21:03 GMT


Re: Gripes
Pedro Silva  Account Info
(Web Page)

I don't think it's slow, the hero is walking not running, the thing about the enemyes is true, but I can see the diference between a dog and a soldier, and sometimes its hard to see at distance, but what did you want, that's hardware limitations of the TI83+, I'd like to see a special edition for SE, with greyscale, but I know that gives too much work to someone who already spent almost a year making a program, this program kicks ass, I wish there was more programs with the quality of this

     28 March 2003, 21:29 GMT


Re: Gripes
Xathien  Account Info
(Web Page)

Well, I would think this game is the best ever, if I had played this before Gemini. I know this is a completely different system, but I much prefer Gemini's larger screen/sprite size, movement speed, and transparancies between different objects. This is great in its own special way, though. Don't get me wrong, I like it.
It's also nice to have the seperate programs for each level so I don't have to clear my entire memory to get enough RAM to play it (which I had to do for Gemini)

     31 March 2003, 21:49 GMT

Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
WackyYKurt88  Account Info

This game may look very cool, I said that myself the first time that I saw it too, though it didn't open up. So I wouldn't bother to download this game because it did not open for me. So just don't waste your time or the space on your computer. Bye.

     28 March 2003, 23:27 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Halfmoon Account Info
(Web Page)

On your computer?

     29 March 2003, 04:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Do you have winzip?

     30 March 2003, 19:01 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Halfmoon Account Info
(Web Page)

Or if you have Windows XP, it has those capabilities built in.

     31 March 2003, 02:58 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yeah... I don't really understand what he means by 'it doesn't open up'... of course it does! It could have been a joke... ?

     1 April 2003, 00:26 GMT

Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
Nicolas BERNIER  Account Info
(Web Page)

I love this game !
I used to spend hours playing Wolf 3D on my 486 before...
The game maps are exactly the same (except the "colours" ;-) ), and the game really fast for a Ti-83.
I always dreamed of a 3D FPS game in ASM, but always though the Z-80 was too slow for it.

Good job !

     31 March 2003, 15:45 GMT


Re: Re: Wolfenstein83 Released
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

>:(

I am very sad right now. I have been missing my TI-89 for over 4 days. It's somewhere in the school building, I think. So, if I seem like I'm in a grumpy mood.... THAT'S why. Thought I should clarify that.

     1 April 2003, 00:32 GMT

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