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Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Posted by Nick on 16 February 2000, 01:00 GMT

Patrick Davidson has created a smashing new DOS program called Source Guru v0.2 Alpha. This converts your old-school TI-85 assembly programs for usage on the TI-92, for Fargo II. So far, Jezzball v2.2 for the 85 has been successfully converted without a hitch, and that's now in our archives for Fargo II. A new version should be released soon, but you can feel free to experiment with this one in the interim.

Update (Nick): Patrick has updated Source Guru to v0.41. This version includes support for the TI-92 Plus, along with some other enhancements for the conversion. If you downloaded it before, download it again. Sorry for the inconvenience.

 


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Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
math boy

Unfortunately I have a TI-89 and not a 92. Anyways, this should be very cool.

BTW, FIRST COMMENT!!!

     16 February 2000, 01:08 GMT

Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Will Stokes  Account Info
(Web Page)

hrmm, second comment =)
if anybody can help me out, I'd like to port mega racers over =) hehehehe. unfortunatley my ti92 is in chicag, while I am in new york for the semister. anybody willing to help me out? :)

     16 February 2000, 01:25 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Patrick Davidson  Account Info
(Web Page)

If Source Guru is compatible with your program, the conversion is completely automatic, so you don't really need to do anything at all (other than maybe try a few different combinations of options).

However, there is some bad news with trying to port MegaRacers: the size. The problem is that not only is 68K code naturally a little larger than the Z80 equivalent, but Source Guru is far from perfectly efficient as well. Since the program still must use 16-bit addresses (think of how some FIND_PIXEL routines construct a video memory address, for example) it must fit in a 16-bit address space. Since the very lowest and highest parts of the 32K RAM are already used for other things, the program's code has to be "mapped" into the 24K of space in between. Therefore, if your program is larger than 24K when converted, it won't work.

So MegaRacers probably won't work as is, considering that it's a large program. On the other hand, if a lot of it is data (which won't expand) then it might fit. However, you still might need to make a 'lite' version so that it still fits after conversion.

     16 February 2000, 02:10 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
David Phillips  Account Info
(Web Page)

What about not mapping the 68k code into the Z80 address space at all? Completely mimic the TI-85 address space, code and data, which is all the same anyway. If a program reads the code as data, then the current method will fail. This might help eliminate many of the address problems, since the 68k code will never have to read it's own code, just the original Z80 code.

If an instruction writes into the Z80 code, then that portion would be recompiled. Of course, this assumes that on-calc dynamic recompilation is taking place, but this might be more space efficient, since Z80 code is usually smaller than 68k.

     16 February 2000, 02:26 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Nick Disabato  Account Info
(Web Page)

<joke>
I can break into your house and fedex you the 92 if you'd like.
</joke>

:)

--BlueCalx

     16 February 2000, 02:15 GMT


Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Patrick Davidson  Account Info
(Web Page)

Fortunately, getting it to work on a TI-89 should not be very difficult. The only thing that needs to be done is to update the keyboard map, so I can probably get that done very soon.

     16 February 2000, 02:03 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
CyberBotX  Account Info

Will you be able to make this work on a 92+ with DoorsOs II???

     16 February 2000, 02:11 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Brian Tribondeau  Account Info
(Web Page)

And maybe you could make this program for Rom2.03 and Harware2 ? It is easy to do it for a such game.

     16 February 2000, 02:36 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
DaRkBlAd3

kewl thats going to be awesome!!

-DaRkBlAd3

     16 February 2000, 03:22 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
math boy

Could you please do so? I would appreciate it! How long would it take? Thanks!!!

     16 February 2000, 04:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Jeff Meister  Account Info

To all replying to Patrick's comment:

Yes, I have an 89, and I'm excited about this too... but let's not press this guy too hard. He worked really hard to get this 92 (well, 92+ too now) version out and now we're buggin him real quick about an 89 version. Just wait and see what happens... don't make him want to stop making great stuff like this by pushing him too hard.

- Jeff

     17 February 2000, 00:20 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
cjk00  Account Info

it would be greatly appreciated if yo could make the source guru convert progs for the 89. there area so many great 85 games out there that i just wish i had but i only haev a 89.

     17 February 2000, 22:19 GMT

Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Andrew Magness  Account Info
(Web Page)

Way to go Pat! This is awesome... I might just have to take out my plus module for this one :)

This may revive both the 85 and the 92....

Very Very cool!

     16 February 2000, 01:31 GMT

Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Patrick Davidson  Account Info
(Web Page)

I've already gotten it working on the TI-92 Plus, and it should be released soon. I actually did succesfully generate TI-92 Plus executables of both Jezzball and Lunoid, but since then I made some change that broke it. But as soon as I figure out what happened, I'll release it.

     16 February 2000, 02:14 GMT

Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Aaron Peterson  Account Info
(Web Page)

geeps, if he makes it work with 86 asm... including the 86 shells... we would be able to have 83 ion, some 82 stuff and 85 stuff working on a 92??! or an 89...

Way to go Pat!

     16 February 2000, 10:05 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Philip Ringsmuth  Account Info
(Web Page)

Hey, you're right! Then all those people that think their "superior" 86s won't be so superior anymore@ We'll be able to have virtually every used TI calc out there on our 89/92/92+! Way to go Pat, keep up the awesome work!!!

-Fil

     16 February 2000, 17:07 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Jeff Meister  Account Info

Exactly.

I hope that happens. Many of the 86 users think they are soooo great about their calcs because they can play everyone else's games. This isn't exactly easy to make (the emulator), though. It's amazing that Patrick found a way to do it. When the 86 is emulating games for the 82, 83, 85, and so on... it is just emulating a slightly different version of the z80 processor. The core commands are still about the same (I think). But this emulator is running programs made in z80, on a 68k processor. Easier said than done.

Hmm... I will love to laugh at the 86 users (only the stuck-up ones... most are okay) when I'm running THEIR games... twice as fast as they're running them. :)

- Jeff

     17 February 2000, 00:28 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Reno  Account Info

is it possible to emulate a program written for a 6mhz z80 calc twice as fast using a 10-12mhz motorola? Not that I'm technically inclined to say, but I noticed that, on my 86, when I emulate 82/85 games, they sometimes seem slower than on the respective calculators.

     17 February 2000, 03:30 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Samir Ribic  Account Info
(Web Page)

No! Z80 emulator for TI89 exists, it is called Tezxas and although it emulates ZX Spectrum at 3.5 MHz Z80 the resulting speed is 25-80% of the original. And it is one of the fastest emulators, because decoding of single byte Z80 instruction is done in two 68000 instructions. I can make it faster, but not much, maybe additional 10%.
However, if I combine technics from Tezxas (emulator) and Source Guru (translator) some time consuming routines can be converted to native Z80 code to make these programs acceptably fast. But it is too much work for free program without even POTM award to satisfy me.

     17 February 2000, 08:14 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Brian Tribondeau  Account Info
(Web Page)

if you can emulate games from the ti86, without a computer,you're sure to win the award..

     17 February 2000, 18:31 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Philip Ringsmuth  Account Info
(Web Page)

Just think about it, we'll be able to (in theory) run double emulation!! Just think, your 89 will be running an 86 emulator, and that emulator will be running an 83 emulator, and you'll be playing Lotus Turbo Challenge on your 89! This is just awesome!

One thing people talk about when a new video game system is released is backwards compatibilitly, as with the Playstation 2. You'll be able to play Playstation games on it. It's the same way with Nintendo's coming GameBoy Advance, you'll be able to play GameBoy Color and GameBoy games on it. Now with these amazing developments, it seems that no matter what the TI Corporation can throw at us, we'll take on the challenge in full force and soon be using all their past calculators on the new one. This is really cool. Great work Pat, and to whoever is responsible for emulation on the 86.

-Fil

     17 February 2000, 06:07 GMT


Re: Re: Patrick Davidson Releases Source Guru v0.2 Alpha
Axycer Account Info

Kudos to you Pat, keep it up!

     17 February 2000, 04:28 GMT

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