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PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Posted by Michael on 2 November 2005, 01:22 GMT

The latest version of PreOS, 1.0.4, has been released. PreOS is everyone's favorite kernel for the 68k calculators. Notable is the new PreOS Developer Version which includes the source code as well as a TI-89 emulator for the TI-89 Titanium. The developer version notwithstanding, this is just a minor update though.

Since Jon put my name in the latest survey, I wish to inform him that we're still waiting for that LATE newsletter. My TI-81 isn't getting any younger you know.

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Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Nikky Southerland  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yay for minor updates!

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 01:26 GMT

Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Lewk Of Serthic  Account Info
(Web Page)

wOOt! 89 emulator! How's that work?

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 03:50 GMT

Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Lewk Of Serthic  Account Info
(Web Page)

And I don't suppose this means I can use the FAT Engine without having to patch crap and intall HW3Patches and that kind of nonsence...

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 04:07 GMT


Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

No.

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 12:53 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Lewk Of Serthic  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yeah, sounded to good to be true. GhostBuster will retain its immortal place on my 89Ti.

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 20:39 GMT


Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
jesse frey  Account Info

the hardware is almost the same so it probably just temporally changes the differences or something.

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 04:49 GMT


Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
jtjdt  Account Info
(Web Page)

I'm glad that the OS is still being actively developed.

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 05:43 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
srunni Account Info
(Web Page)

I use PreOS - it's a great kernel. I will definitely be downloading and using the new version. The version I am currently using is 0.71, so I'm kind of behind. Anyway, it's always nice to see updates to your favorite programs.

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 23:20 GMT

Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Ultra_64  Account Info

When you talk about the TI-89 emulator for the TI-89 Titanium, do you mean that you're adding a TI-89 Titanium emulator for, such as VTI, TiEmu, and etc? Sure, I would have ROM-dumped my TI-89 Titanium to my PC, but... not sure how it works (not that I'm sharing my ROMs with everyone else here, but for myself to see if the "real" TI-89 Titanium actually "works together" with the REAL TI-89 Titanium, if you know what I mean. I've never used PreOS, but I wonder what it does. It sounds good, though.

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 04:54 GMT

Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

No, it lets TI-89 programs run on the TI-89 Titanium. Presumably it's to aid in development or such. I really am not well versed on 89 shells, so perhaps someone else will answer this.

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 05:00 GMT


Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

The TI-89 "emulator" in PreOs is not really an emulator, that's just PpHd's marketing speak. It does 2 things:
* fake the values of some RAM_CALLS. Mainly, CALCULATOR is set to 0 rather than -1, which IMHO it should be in the first place (TIGCC sets CALCULATOR to 0 for the Titanium, it's the only way to keep source compatibility; you can use HW_VERSION to check for the Titanium if you really have to, which also makes more sense because the few differences between a TI-89 and a Titanium will also most likely affect a HW3 V200 if TI releases one).
* automatically patch programs (without asking!) so they run on a Titanium (and ONLY on a Titanium, and in some cases only on the exact ROM version you're running!). This is not a problem if the program is archived because it then patches only a temporary copy, but if it isn't archived, it's a serious issue. I did all I could to try to convince PpHd to remove or change this misfeature, but once he has some idea in mind, he never relents from it, no matter how bad it is. :-( GhostBuster is a much more reliable solution, given that it never patches anything without you explicitly asking it to. As for the ROM version dependence, it's caused by a RAM_CALL hack which is done in a much cleaner way in Iceberg (but again, he refused to implement it the proper way).

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 13:02 GMT

Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Michael McElroy Account Info
(Web Page)

That seems like an extremely heavy-handed way to force compatibility. I mean, what if the patched program doesn't work at all in future ROM versions? It might be impossible to patch it incrementally.

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 14:34 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Lewk Of Serthic  Account Info
(Web Page)

Hmm... never though of that...

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 20:32 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

And it doesn't even always work:
1. It doesn't work at all for _nostub programs.
2. It isn't guaranteed to work even for kernel-based programs, e.g. everything using TIGCCLIB grayscale isn't patched properly.
3. Patching can also cause "false positives", where some unrelated code or data is mistaken for code to patch and corrupted. (GhostBuster can of course also cause this, but at least it won't apply the patches without being asked to do so!) This is however mostly theoretical, I'm not aware of any false positives for either the PreOs autopatcher or GhostBuster (apart from GhostBuster applying an unneeded patch to the HW1-only portion of the TIGCCLIB grayscale routine).

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 23:07 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
PpHd  Account Info
(Web Page)

I can't patch nostub programs because:
* they require a far greater patch than the one in PreOS.
* They aren't kernel program.

The problems are however mostly theoretical like you said. In practice, it works very fine.

Reply to this comment    5 November 2005, 16:05 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
PpHd  Account Info
(Web Page)

Resend the original file, and send the newest preos. This thing is mainly and should be a hack so that some programs designed to work on 89 2.03 works on titanium 3.10.

Reply to this comment    5 November 2005, 16:01 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
PpHd  Account Info
(Web Page)

And by the way, it doesn't patch programs designed to work on the titanium.

Reply to this comment    5 November 2005, 16:13 GMT


Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
PpHd  Account Info
(Web Page)

>> As for the ROM version dependence, it's caused by a RAM_CALL hack which is done in a much cleaner way in Iceberg (but again, he refused to implement it the proper way).
What are you talking about?

Reply to this comment    5 November 2005, 16:02 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

The font_* hack.

Reply to this comment    6 November 2005, 00:42 GMT

Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Daniel VAN ZONNEVELD  Account Info

Wy does everybody likes preos so much? Don't tell me you use it to execute your programs...

I use icons for my programs on my desktop with id (integrated desktop). Thats much more fun.
I just took the time to create icons for all the programs i often use, even basic progs. And now i hardly use any explorer program like preos.

If so many of you are to lazy to create icons maybe someone should put up a file with a few hundred icons for the lazy-ones among us. I already got 100. just ask :-)

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 20:35 GMT

Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Lewk Of Serthic  Account Info
(Web Page)

I only have it installed so I can occasionally play SMQ, I never use the browser.

Reply to this comment    2 November 2005, 20:43 GMT

Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Kevin Ouellet  Account Info
(Web Page)

i dont use kernels and shells to run asm and c programs on 68k I run them from homescreen

Reply to this comment    3 November 2005, 15:58 GMT

Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
CajunLuke  Account Info
(Web Page)

I used to use ID, but then it kept crashing games and other ASM programs, so I stpped using it. I don't even use the APPs Desktop.

Reply to this comment    3 November 2005, 23:29 GMT


Re: Re: PreOS v1.0.4 Released
Zarel  Account Info
(Web Page)

I don't think you understand.

PreOS is mainly used as a kernel. The actual file manager isn't very useful; IIRC, even the creators reccomend TICT Explorer or Doors Explorer.

What it's good for is to run kernel programs (See Web Page link), making it one of the few kernels with the ability to run programs for DoorsOS on AMS 2.07 and higher (DoorsOS only supports AMS 2.05 and lower).

Reply to this comment    4 November 2005, 03:18 GMT

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