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Results
Choice Votes   Percent
Yes, I've already submitted a program for it! 0 0.0%   
Yes, I'm working on a program but I haven't submitted it yet. 20 19.4%   
No, I'm not working on a program yet, but I'm going to! 8 7.8%   
No, I'm not going to submit a program this year. 50 48.5%   
Maybe, I haven't decided what I want to do yet. 25 24.3%   

Survey posted 2004-07-09 21:43 by Jon.

Contribute ideas to surveys by sending a mail to survey@ticalc.org.

  Reply to this item

Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Jonathan Katz  Account Info
(Web Page)

Survey idea by Morgan, choices by me : )

POTY = "Program of the Year"

Reply to this comment    9 July 2004, 21:44 GMT


Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

Publicity, sorry, but i didnt think many people would see it way down there.

try this code (83x BASIC):
Input "STYLE: ",A
Input "FREQU: ",B
Shade(-10-(10/96), 10+(10/96), -10-(10/63), 10+(10/63), A, B

Remove the spaces after each comma.
It's really amazing. For example: Clearscreen, run the program and enter 3 and 3 as your values. The wait and without clearing the screen, run it again and enter 3 and 4. Repeat, still not clearscreening, and enter 4 and 3. One last time with 4 and 4. It makes a really cool pattern. You can try a bunch of variations on this, just play around, it's stunning the kind of power this code has. Really, TRY IT OUT. I made an advanced version that takes list inputs instead, for those extremely confident in their use of this code:
Input L1
Input L2
For(A,1,dim(L1),1
Shade(-10-(10/96), 10+(10/96), -10-(10/63), 10+(10/63), L1(A), L2(A)
End

Remove spaces after each comma in the Shade statement.
Have fun, and I really insist you try out that first code and do my example.

Oh, and in the first code, the first two lines /might/ be switched, but it doesn't affect the example and I have no way of checking the code as I'm at the library. It's just in my head; I had a field day with it every math class every year and decided it was time to tell someone. You can get, to my count, about 50 self-repeating (is that the term for when you zoom in and see exactly what you saw from afar, like in fractals?) patterns. It's really a reward to find a really good one after awhile of trying. Plus it passes the time very well.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 18:02 GMT

Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Morgan Davies  Account Info
(Web Page)

Just to clarify and avoid any questions. All featured programs from 2004 and some from December of 2003 witll be in the contest. Thus by "submit" we aren't saying there is a place to submit your files. If you need something featured to get it in the contest, talk to featprog@ticalc.org.

Reply to this comment    9 July 2004, 22:05 GMT

Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Morgan Davies  Account Info
(Web Page)

I hate to be one of those people that always says that you forgot an option, hpwever you let one slip by this time. I would fall into the category:

I am not a good enough programmer to have a program featured! :-)

Reply to this comment    9 July 2004, 22:37 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
tifreak8x  Account Info
(Web Page)

same here, I only program in BASIC... But good BASIC though, none of that bad stuff... :)

Reply to this comment    9 July 2004, 23:07 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Enchanted Coders  Account Info
(Web Page)

I also have very little experience programming in anything other than TI-Basic...so I'm not going to even hope one of my programs is featured because the chances of that happening are so low.

Reply to this comment    9 July 2004, 23:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Paul Houser Account Info
(Web Page)

"good BASIC" is an oxymoron.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 00:33 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Tzazak  Account Info

Not necessarily. Guardian for the Ti-89 is an awesome game I played a while back, completely written in basic. However, that game did have a few bugs that never got corrected, and it was written in 2000 so I'm not sure if the authors would fix them anyway. It was (and still is) an awesome game.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 00:59 GMT

Good BASIC
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

I write good BASIC. What bad techniques do you assume I use?

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 04:49 GMT


Re: Good BASIC
Tzazak  Account Info

I don't think he was talking about coding technique. I think he was talking about gameplay, graphics, and most importantly speed of games. I would rather have miscellaneous files in basic than asm because of stability, but for games speed is definitely an issue.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 05:16 GMT


Re: Re: Good BASIC
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

I can write it to be fast.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 12:46 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

of course, but there just isn't enough power to do a /lot/ fast.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 13:16 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

Of course, this is where the art of making a program look like it's doing a lot when it actually isn't (event-based architecture) comes in.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 23:16 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

it's fun to see how deep you can make a program look without any features. For example make a botchat client that only responds to things might type right off the bat, like "hi" or "what's your name". Or try to predict what the player will do in a game and make that the only thing you develop. always fun.

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 03:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

I was thinking about, for example, getting pointing device coordinates and the confirmation key (I use a routine called zzmouse), opening a certain menu based on the confirmation key, then processing the menu choice at a certain label (based on what the user clicked on) by using the fact that Exact mode symbolic variables are recognized as valid label names.

To generate the menu, I would define strings at the beginning of the program to make menus and then pass them to FLib at certain labels. Perhaps I could also use a routine to generate the filename based on events and then open it, which generally is faster. OK, FLib isn't BASIC, but part of 'good programming technique' is not reinventing the wheel.

Off the top of my head (returnel is a routine I use to turn a list element into a string) is a word-processor routine: Click on a formatting button and go back to accepting text

This is a self-contained routine, not a program

:Local ms, fl, str_el, mode (C) Declares the routine return variables and the mode restoration variables local
:getMode("ALL")->mode (C) Saves settings
:setMode("Exact/Approx", "EXACT") (C) Allows expressions to be used as labels
:flib("clrscr", "fillrect:0,0,5,5,2") (C) Clears the screen and adds a control
:zzmouse() (C) Allows the user to click on the control
:returnel(ms,1) (C) Returns the column, and inferentially what control was clicked on
:Goto expr(a&ceiling(expr(str_el/10)))
:(C)Labels for each button
:setMode(mode) (C) Restores modes
:hsr() (C) Recalls the home screen

That's good BASIC. It may need some debugging, like any code (I just thought of it off the top of my head), but it's still conceptually good code. It's low-level, in BASIC, and surprisingly fast.

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 07:35 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

heueh? is that computer BASIC or TIBASIC?

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 20:23 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

TI-BASIC.

Reply to this comment    12 July 2004, 11:00 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Don't the colons and ->'s give it away? :)

Reply to this comment    12 July 2004, 16:57 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

hmmzah, definately not 83 basic...

Reply to this comment    14 July 2004, 13:55 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

w00t! for the TI-89 family. Its TI-BASIC is so much different...

Reply to this comment    14 July 2004, 15:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

and the (C) instead of REM

Reply to this comment    4 August 2004, 15:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
CajunLuke Account Info

I'm not sure about 68k BASIC, but in 83+ BASIC, you can use the Input command with no arguments as a pointing device. it gives you the big plus used on the graphscreen, and you can use the arrows to move around and hit enter when you are done. The coordinates are in X and Y, but they are Cartesian: they depend on the WINDOW settings.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 16:20 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

yupyupyup. There's an 'ok' 83+ BASIC tic-tac-toe that uses that technique. I made a "interactive picture" of windows XP (what with the start menus, and other hierarchial menus branching off of that) with that command too. It's in the manual I think.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 17:38 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

zzmouse is faster. Plus, with Input the cursor is a plus sign and it only works on the graph screen.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 20:40 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good BASIC
Sam3.14 Account Info
(Web Page)

I never use that because it is too slow. It doesn't support 2nd + Right or Left

Reply to this comment    16 July 2004, 15:53 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Sam3.14 Account Info
(Web Page)

It really isn't. I am working on a BASIC RPG right now with one of my friends. It has a frame rate of around 10 fps, which is about as fast as you can get in BASIC, I think. The graphics are very good, too. It should be finished in a few months.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 09:41 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

10fps? That's hard to believe... i dont even think a for-looped clrscrn can run 10 times in a second.

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 03:20 GMT

For
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

For...EndFor is slow.

:Local getky
:Loop
:flib("clrscr")
:blackscr()
:getkey()->getky
:If getky!=0 Then
:Exit
:EndIf
:EndLoop

That-^ is much faster. In fact, it's so fast that occasionally the gray is indistinguishable from the contrast.

For Z80, substitute Lbl...Goto for Loop...EndLoop.

I know != is a C operator, but there's no not-equals symbol on my keyboard.

If you really want For...EndFor, you can code it yourself and it will be much faster, especially if you integrate it with the loop and it will distribute the slowness over the routine instead of having one very slow function.

Reply to this comment    12 July 2004, 12:34 GMT

Re: For
Sam3.14 Account Info
(Web Page)

While 1 ... End is faster than Lbl ... Goto.

Reply to this comment    13 July 2004, 20:58 GMT

Re: For
Sam3.14 Account Info
(Web Page)

Why not just use CyclePic? (Yes, I realize that flib uses the entire screen, but is it really worth the stability problems?)

Reply to this comment    14 July 2004, 06:46 GMT


FLib
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

FLib is unstable? I used it becasue it uses the whole screen and it's faster.

Reply to this comment    14 July 2004, 10:26 GMT


Re: FLib
Sam3.14 Account Info
(Web Page)

I started programming a large game with it, and every time I turned off my calculator it crashed.

Reply to this comment    14 July 2004, 19:37 GMT


Re: Re: FLib
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

Your Calculator?

HW:

TI-:

AMS:

Free Memory:

Program Size:

Execution in Archive:

Any other notes about the program? Were you trying to turn off the calculator? What FLib calls were you using before the crash?

Reply to this comment    14 July 2004, 23:41 GMT


Re: Re: Re: FLib
Sam3.14 Account Info
(Web Page)

HW2
AMS 2.09
Free Memory
RAM: about 70000
Archive: about 500000
Program size: the main program was about 3000, but all the other files that were necesary took up almost 100000 bytes

I could do whatever i wanted while the calculator was on, but as soon as I turned it off, a black bar appeared at the top. I used many different flib calls in the program, and many flib2 calls as well, since I was using a text file to hold most of the data. I used getline to retrieve long strings of characters from the teext file. I then used flib("map") to create a picture using about 70 sprites called:
#("sp"&char (seq(x,x,1,n,1))) [ommitting characters not allowed in variable names]

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 08:08 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: FLib
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

What is an example of a name that would be produced by that statement?

Did it ever Garbage Collect?

Wait...I still don't get whether you were using the program to turn off the device or it was manual or it turned off as the result of a crash. If it was manual, this would be the first ever case of a BASIC TSR, so that's probably unlikely.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 08:58 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLib
Sam3.14 Account Info
(Web Page)

Some example names are "spa", "sp4", and "spö".

It never garbage collected.

I turned it off manually using 2nd + Off

The only other ASM program on my calc besides flib and flib2 was fastkbd.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 09:40 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLib
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

Are you sure it stopped running before you turned it off?

Did it come back to the screen you left it on or did it display the APPS Desktop with the Line1111 bar at the top?

This is unlikely to make a difference, but did you use local variables? If you did, try globalizing them and run it again (if you still have the program).

Specifically, what command did the program stop on?

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 20:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLib
Sam3.14 Account Info
(Web Page)

Yes I am sure it stopped running.

It came back to the home screen (where I left it) and froze up, with a black bar at the top.

I used global variables.

When you say "stop" do you mean stop normally at EndPrgm or Stop, or do you mean freeze up?

Reply to this comment    16 July 2004, 15:58 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FLib
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

Freeze up. I was looking for a breakpoint.

Reply to this comment    4 August 2004, 15:55 GMT

Re: For
Chivo  Account Info

You could type /= for "not equal". It's converted to the correct symbol on the calculator. Neat, eh?

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 22:45 GMT


Re: For
anykey  Account Info
(Web Page)

Most languages use != , not just C.

Reply to this comment    16 July 2004, 01:09 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Lewk Of Serthic Account Info
(Web Page)

prgmWAVES
:Lbl 1
:RecallPic 1
:ClrDraw
:Goto 1

Where Pic 1 is a all black picture.

When run on a 83+ is makes a weird wavy pattern <see link> (the screen shot makes it look really crappy, it is alot cooler on a real calc.)

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 02:52 GMT


too long subject
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

try this code (83x BASIC):
Input "STYLE: ",A
Input "FREQU: ",B
Shade(-10-(10/96), 10+(10/96), -10-(10/63), 10+(10/63), A, B

Remove the spaces after each comma.
It's really amazing. For example: Clearscreen, run the program and enter 3 and 3 as your values. The wait and without clearing the screen, run it again and enter 3 and 4. Repeat, still not clearscreening, and enter 4 and 3. One last time with 4 and 4. It makes a really cool pattern. You can try a bunch of variations on this, just play around, it's stunning the kind of power this code has. Really, TRY IT OUT. I made an advanced version that takes list inputs instead, for those extremely confident in their use of this code:
Input L1
Input L2
For(A,1,dim(L1),1
Shade(-10-(10/96), 10+(10/96), -10-(10/63), 10+(10/63), L1(A), L2(A)
End

Remove spaces after each comma in the Shade statement.
Have fun, and I really insist you try out that first code and do my example.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 17:58 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Sam3.14 Account Info
(Web Page)

I didn't use clrscrn, I used RplcPic

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 09:40 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
tifreak8x  Account Info
(Web Page)

Why do you think I posted it the way I did?? I figured someone out there might get a good laugh out of that statement.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 13:15 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
lalu Account Info

Actually, TI-Basic is great for any nontrivial symbolic manipulation.

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 00:39 GMT

burntfuse  Account Info

Noooo...there are plenty of good BASIC programs. The reason that most people think all BASIC progs suck is because they only see the bad ones, which there *are* a lot of because BASIC is easier to use (in general) than assembly. The compiler is right on the calc-you don't need to download an assembler, learn opcode memnonics, etc.

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 19:04 GMT


Re:
anykey  Account Info
(Web Page)

Actually, I'm pretty sure basic is interpreted, not compiled.

Reply to this comment    14 July 2004, 20:05 GMT

Tokenized
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

BASIC is tokenized-parts of code mean parts of ASM code, which is then run. Specifically, precisely, it's more like the Exec arguments with a sophisticated program converting the arguments, functions, OS components, and programs to ASM versions. It's kind of compiled.

Reply to this comment    14 July 2004, 23:45 GMT


Re: Tokenized
Chivo  Account Info

BASIC is tokenized into one- or two-byte symbols which are more easily interpreted than multi-byte commands. There still needs to be an interpreter to run the program.

On the TI-86 and the 68k calcs, commands can be typed in by hand or selected from a list. These have to be translated to tokens before the program can run. This is why recently-editted programs take awhile to start running. Editting a recently-tokenized program causes the tokens to be expanded to their human-friendly command names.

On the TI-83, 82, 83+, etc., I think commands are kept as tokens, but they are displayed as strings of letters and symbols (such as parentheses) when a program is editted (or on the homescreen). This is why programs (even recently-editted programs) all start running immediately or at least quickly on these calcs.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 22:42 GMT


burntfuse  Account Info

It is-the assembler I referred to was for writing assembly progs.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 21:49 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Lewk Of Serthic Account Info
(Web Page)

You obviously have not looked at the BASIC archives in any detail.

Reply to this comment    12 July 2004, 00:06 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Rodney Blythe  Account Info
(Web Page)

LOL, same here, though if I find the time, I will try to create an entry.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 02:08 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
The Muffin Man Account Info
(Web Page)

Some basic programmers are geniuses! O_o
I'd use a stable basic program over asm any day.
..seeing how a lot of asm programs are programmed poorly and when this happens your calc is liable to f**k up.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 04:30 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

yeah, sicode was amazing. some code i've written is completely unintelligible too. coughcough line statements

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 13:17 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

That's why you archive everything. Simple.

Reply to this comment    13 July 2004, 13:54 GMT


burntfuse  Account Info

Or you just back up everything before trying the program for the first time if you don't have flash. I've only found a couple of unstable assembly progs out of the hundreds I've tried.

Reply to this comment    14 July 2004, 17:21 GMT


Re:
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Same here... if a program is really that unstable, I doubt they'd upload it. Most programmers try to work their bugs out before releasing their stuff.

Reply to this comment    15 July 2004, 16:40 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Jonathan Katz  Account Info
(Web Page)

I wanted it to be an optimistic survey!! : )

In other words, yes, I did seem to forget that option.

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 19:17 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Morgan Davies  Account Info
(Web Page)

Tsk Tsk...its ok we are all rookies at one point in time :-)

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 09:57 GMT


Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

aww, i was going to submit by ultra-sooper-dooper-mega BASIC quadratic solver... :(

Reply to this comment    10 July 2004, 13:15 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

that was a joke, people.

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 03:22 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

*phew* I figured as much.

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 15:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Are you working on any projects for the 2004 POTY contest?
Brian Gordon  Account Info
(Web Page)

[insert that kindly condescendingly looking phpbb ;) emoticon here]

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 20:24 GMT


burntfuse  Account Info

GOOD!!!!!! :-)

Reply to this comment    11 July 2004, 19:00 GMT

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