Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe here)


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Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe here)




Some how I knew this was going to be said...  hehe  =)

-Miles Raymond

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Wingbermuehle <joewing@usmo.com>
To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe here)


>
>Personally, I don't care who plays my games, I make them for my
>entertainment and post them for your entertainment.  I enjoy making
programs
>and using the product.
>Anyway, if a person is too stupid to use the link, then who cares if they
>have optimal free memory? Incorporating this marvelous link function in the
>shell would take up so much memory it wouldn't be worth using the libraries
>in the first place. Therefore, people such as myself would have tons of
>wasted memory.  This is the point I was trying to make in my last email.
>
>
>Joe Wingbermuehle
>http://www.usmo.com/~joewing/
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Miles Raymond <m_rayman@bigfoot.com>
>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 8:44 PM
>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe here)
>
>
>>
>>The point I am trying to make is that it would be easy to do, so all the
>>idiots at school who have TI-83s just because they stole them and want to
>>play games can transfer the games also.  Thus creating a larger user base.
>>Wouldn't you rather have everyone who has a calc playing your game rather
>>than everyone who knows how to transfer a program playing your game?
>>
>>-Miles Raymond
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Dan Englender <jfsmi@geocities.com>
>>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 7:18 PM
>>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe here)
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Hehe, but you're not really playing tetris with optimal ram free.
Optimal
>>>ram free would be not having the code to send inside the shell, saving
>lots
>>>of space, and just sending over the libs needed by tetris (yes I know,
its
>>>very hard work to send libs over manually ;)
>>>
>>>-Dan
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Miles Raymond <m_rayman@bigfoot.com>
>>>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 8:10 PM
>>>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe here)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>The idea of controling link functions inside the shell is so that only
>the
>>>>necessary libs are sent to the recieving calc.  Say calc1 has tons of
>>>games.
>>>>Say calc2 has nothing.  Calc2 want tetris, and only tetris.  Calc1 sends
>>>>calc2 the shell.  When both calcs are in the shell, calc1 selects tetris
>>to
>>>>be sent over.  The shell on calc1 determines which libs tetris uses.
>>Calc1
>>>>sends tetris and ONLY THE NECESSARY libs over to calc2.  Calc2 can now
>>play
>>>>tetris with optimal RAM free.
>>>>
>>>>-Miles Raymond
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Joe Wingbermuehle <joewing@usmo.com>
>>>>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>>>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 3:22 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe here)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>hehe, I'd like to see the code to that too! The object of libraries is
>to
>>>>>save space, not make the shell so big that libraries don't help.
>>>>>Anyway, since I made ZLib my ideas about libraries have changed
>somewhat.
>>>>I
>>>>>think each library should only have a small number of large, related
>>>>>functions (like ZGFXL).  ZLib has some functions that I think I should
>>>take
>>>>>out, but I'm reluctant because I'm afraid it would make some games
crash
>>>>>etc...
>>>>>The beep function is used in pretty many games, but the delete function
>>is
>>>>>not used at all that I know (please don't use the delete function if
you
>>>>>think I should remove it from the next release...).
>>>>>
>>>>>btw, why do you need a shell to send files? The link stuff built in to
>>the
>>>>>calculator will send the files in the correct order since libraries
>begin
>>>>>with Z, you just have to be careful to send all the libraries--not that
>>>>it's
>>>>>the end of the world if somebody has to go a day not being able to play
>a
>>>>>particular game...
>>>>>
>>>>>Joe Wingbermuehle
>>>>>http://www.usmo.com/~joewing/
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Miles Raymond <m_rayman@bigfoot.com>
>>>>>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>>>>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 9:53 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe here)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Me too.  I'd love to see the code for that.  Right now, I am just an
>>>>>>ideaman, and not a programmer.  I'm trying to learn, but it's hard
when
>>I
>>>>>>don't have a GL to use.  And no, I don't know how complicated that
>would
>>>>>be,
>>>>>>but I get the idea from your message. =)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-Miles Raymond
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: James Matthews <matthews@tkb.att.ne.jp>
>>>>>>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>>>>>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 7:36 AM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe
here)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>No offense to anyone here, but I'd LOVE to see the code for that.  Do
>>>you
>>>>>>have any idea how complicated that'd be :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Later,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>James Matthews (matthews@tkb.att.ne.jp)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>PS:  cool idea, though :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ICQ: 7413754
>>>>>>>http://home.att.ne.jp/gold/tomcat21/index.html
>>>>>>>http://library.advanced.org/18242/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----------
>>>>>>>> From: Miles Raymond <m_rayman@bigfoot.com>
>>>>>>>> To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe
>>>here)
>>>>>>>> Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 10:29 AM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What if someone made a shell that did file transfer, and in each
>>>>>program,
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>> contained information on which functions in each library it used.
>>>That
>>>>>>way
>>>>>>>> the shell could determine which libraries to send to another calc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On the recieving end, the shell would check the libraries and make
>>>sure
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>> had the same, if not later version of the library as the sending
>>calc.
>>>>>>If
>>>>>>>> the sending calc's library was older, then the shell either could
>ask
>>>>or
>>>>>>>> preferably, ignore the incoming library.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even better that that idea, is one where the two shells send each
>>>other
>>>>>>info
>>>>>>>> on their libraries.  The sending calc would then never transmit an
>>>>older
>>>>>>>> library.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both these ideas would make tansfering shell-specific programs a
>>snap.
>>>>>>>> Maybe this should be added to the next SOS?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Miles Raymond
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Alan C Johnson <benjamin99@juno.com>
>>>>>>>> To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 8:11 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe
>>>here)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >The main problem with libraries, though, is that sometimes you
have
>>>>>>>> >routines that aren't used by enough programs to make a memory
>>>>"profit".
>>>>>>>> >Take ZLIB for example (no offense Joe), just about every ZLIB game
>>>>uses
>>>>>>>> >ramdom, but there are routines that aren't commonly used by games,
>>>>such
>>>>>>>> >as 'beep'.  The point is, that every calc owner has different
>games.
>>>>>>>> >Depending on what games they have, they might only actualy need 1
>>>>>>>> >function out of a library, while the rest of the lib is a waste of
>>>>>>space.
>>>>>>>> > I'm ok with having ZLIB and ZGFXL on my calc, but i won't be ok
if
>>>>100
>>>>>>>> >different libraries come out and each game needs a different on,
or
>>>>>ZLIB
>>>>>>>> >grows past 1KB, because after that, you might as well just not
have
>>>>the
>>>>>>>> >lib.  I reluctant to have ZINPT on my calc, but that's a different
>>>>>story
>>>>>>>> >because I don't think it was made well. This is a different story
>on
>>>a
>>>>>>>> >computer where while you have limited space, you can almost always
>>>>>>>> >expand.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Thanks for listening,
>>>>>>>> > Alan
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >>do dlls work like libraries on the calc.  If so why don't we set
>>>>>>>> >>standard dlls for everyprogram to use.  The would hold pixel,
>>>sprite,
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>graphing, and many other commands.  This would be great to have
so
>>>>>>>> >>that
>>>>>>>> >>games would be cut in half.  And if not, I'll make a shell and
>>>>convert
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>every game to work with the dlls.  And like every new version of
>>>>VC++,
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>new dlls would come out, overwriting the old.  And just like on
>>your
>>>>>>>> >>pc,
>>>>>>>> >>if one isn't present, or not updated enough, the program would
say
>>>>>>>> >>so.
>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>> >>-Phelan 'Amen' Wolf
>>>>>>>> >>______________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
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