Re: A83: libraries

To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org
Subject: Re: A83: libraries
From: benjamin99@juno.com (Alan C Johnson)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 23:28:04 -0500
Delivered-To: assembly-83-outgoing@towerguard.unix.edu.sollentuna.se
Reply-To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org

The best possible way to send data from calc to calc is using the built
in ROM routines because they don't take up any memory.  Besides, there
are only 3 libraries out there right now, so who cares? (And I sincerely
hope there stays just 3 libs out there).  Also, people too stupid to
figure out how to use link or who steal 83s don't deserve to play high
quality games for the minimal effort they put in on their part to learn
how to use the calculator.

>
>The point I am trying to make is that it would be easy to do, so all 
>the
>idiots at school who have TI-83s just because they stole them and want 
>to
>play games can transfer the games also.  Thus creating a larger user 
>base.
>Wouldn't you rather have everyone who has a calc playing your game 
>rather
>than everyone who knows how to transfer a program playing your game?
>
>-Miles Raymond
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Englender <jfsmi@geocities.com>
>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 7:18 PM
>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe 
>here)
>
>
>>
>>Hehe, but you're not really playing tetris with optimal ram free.  
>Optimal
>>ram free would be not having the code to send inside the shell, 
>saving lots
>>of space, and just sending over the libs needed by tetris (yes I 
>know, its
>>very hard work to send libs over manually ;)
>>
>>-Dan
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Miles Raymond <m_rayman@bigfoot.com>
>>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 8:10 PM
>>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe 
>here)
>>
>>
>>>
>>>The idea of controling link functions inside the shell is so that 
>only the
>>>necessary libs are sent to the recieving calc.  Say calc1 has tons 
>of
>>games.
>>>Say calc2 has nothing.  Calc2 want tetris, and only tetris.  Calc1 
>sends
>>>calc2 the shell.  When both calcs are in the shell, calc1 selects 
>tetris
>to
>>>be sent over.  The shell on calc1 determines which libs tetris 
>uses.
>Calc1
>>>sends tetris and ONLY THE NECESSARY libs over to calc2.  Calc2 can 
>now
>play
>>>tetris with optimal RAM free.
>>>
>>>-Miles Raymond
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Joe Wingbermuehle <joewing@usmo.com>
>>>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 3:22 PM
>>>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe 
>here)
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>hehe, I'd like to see the code to that too! The object of libraries 
>is to
>>>>save space, not make the shell so big that libraries don't help.
>>>>Anyway, since I made ZLib my ideas about libraries have changed 
>somewhat.
>>>I
>>>>think each library should only have a small number of large, 
>related
>>>>functions (like ZGFXL).  ZLib has some functions that I think I 
>should
>>take
>>>>out, but I'm reluctant because I'm afraid it would make some games 
>crash
>>>>etc...
>>>>The beep function is used in pretty many games, but the delete 
>function
>is
>>>>not used at all that I know (please don't use the delete function 
>if you
>>>>think I should remove it from the next release...).
>>>>
>>>>btw, why do you need a shell to send files? The link stuff built in 
>to
>the
>>>>calculator will send the files in the correct order since libraries 
>begin
>>>>with Z, you just have to be careful to send all the libraries--not 
>that
>>>it's
>>>>the end of the world if somebody has to go a day not being able to 
>play a
>>>>particular game...
>>>>
>>>>Joe Wingbermuehle
>>>>http://www.usmo.com/~joewing/
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Miles Raymond <m_rayman@bigfoot.com>
>>>>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>>>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 9:53 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe 
>here)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Me too.  I'd love to see the code for that.  Right now, I am just 
>an
>>>>>ideaman, and not a programmer.  I'm trying to learn, but it's hard 
>when
>I
>>>>>don't have a GL to use.  And no, I don't know how complicated that 
>would
>>>>be,
>>>>>but I get the idea from your message. =)
>>>>>
>>>>>-Miles Raymond
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: James Matthews <matthews@tkb.att.ne.jp>
>>>>>To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>>>>Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 7:36 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or Joe 
>here)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No offense to anyone here, but I'd LOVE to see the code for that. 
> Do
>>you
>>>>>have any idea how complicated that'd be :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Later,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>James Matthews (matthews@tkb.att.ne.jp)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>PS:  cool idea, though :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>ICQ: 7413754
>>>>>>http://home.att.ne.jp/gold/tomcat21/index.html
>>>>>>http://library.advanced.org/18242/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----------
>>>>>>> From: Miles Raymond <m_rayman@bigfoot.com>
>>>>>>> To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or 
>Joe
>>here)
>>>>>>> Date: Friday, October 02, 1998 10:29 AM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What if someone made a shell that did file transfer, and in 
>each
>>>>program,
>>>>>it
>>>>>>> contained information on which functions in each library it 
>used.
>>That
>>>>>way
>>>>>>> the shell could determine which libraries to send to another 
>calc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the recieving end, the shell would check the libraries and 
>make
>>sure
>>>>>it
>>>>>>> had the same, if not later version of the library as the 
>sending
>calc.
>>>>>If
>>>>>>> the sending calc's library was older, then the shell either 
>could ask
>>>or
>>>>>>> preferably, ignore the incoming library.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even better that that idea, is one where the two shells send 
>each
>>other
>>>>>info
>>>>>>> on their libraries.  The sending calc would then never transmit 
>an
>>>older
>>>>>>> library.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Both these ideas would make tansfering shell-specific programs 
>a
>snap.
>>>>>>> Maybe this should be added to the next SOS?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Miles Raymond
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Alan C Johnson <benjamin99@juno.com>
>>>>>>> To: assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org 
><assembly-83@lists.ticalc.org>
>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, October 01, 1998 8:11 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: A83: libraries (no offense intended to Phelan or 
>Joe
>>here)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >The main problem with libraries, though, is that sometimes you 
>have
>>>>>>> >routines that aren't used by enough programs to make a memory
>>>"profit".
>>>>>>> >Take ZLIB for example (no offense Joe), just about every ZLIB 
>game
>>>uses
>>>>>>> >ramdom, but there are routines that aren't commonly used by 
>games,
>>>such
>>>>>>> >as 'beep'.  The point is, that every calc owner has different 
>games.
>>>>>>> >Depending on what games they have, they might only actualy 
>need 1
>>>>>>> >function out of a library, while the rest of the lib is a 
>waste of
>>>>>space.
>>>>>>> > I'm ok with having ZLIB and ZGFXL on my calc, but i won't be 
>ok if
>>>100
>>>>>>> >different libraries come out and each game needs a different 
>on, or
>>>>ZLIB
>>>>>>> >grows past 1KB, because after that, you might as well just not 
>have
>>>the
>>>>>>> >lib.  I reluctant to have ZINPT on my calc, but that's a 
>different
>>>>story
>>>>>>> >because I don't think it was made well. This is a different 
>story on
>>a
>>>>>>> >computer where while you have limited space, you can almost 
>always
>>>>>>> >expand.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Thanks for listening,
>>>>>>> > Alan
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >>do dlls work like libraries on the calc.  If so why don't we 
>set
>>>>>>> >>standard dlls for everyprogram to use.  The would hold 
>pixel,
>>sprite,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>graphing, and many other commands.  This would be great to 
>have so
>>>>>>> >>that
>>>>>>> >>games would be cut in half.  And if not, I'll make a shell 
>and
>>>convert
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>every game to work with the dlls.  And like every new version 
>of
>>>VC++,
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>new dlls would come out, overwriting the old.  And just like 
>on
>your
>>>>>>> >>pc,
>>>>>>> >>if one isn't present, or not updated enough, the program 
>would say
>>>>>>> >>so.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>-Phelan 'Amen' Wolf
>>>>>>> >>______________________________________________________
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>>>>>>> >
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>
>

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