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TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Posted by Michael on 22 August 2004, 03:04 GMT

Since the release of the 89 Titanium, there have been many reports of incompatibilities with existing assembly programs. Hopefully some of these will be now alleviated, as a number of key fixes have been released. Kevin Kofler's 89 homepage contains links to many programs that operate properly on the Titanium, including his own HW3Patch that will patch the AMS so as to allow certain types of programs to function correctly. For kernel aficionados, Iceberg v1.00 is a port of PreOS v0.67 to the Titanium.

Greg Dietsche has also uploaded Titanium compatible versions of KerNO (the anti-kernel 'kernel') and some games: Insane Game, ZTetris, Tron, and Dr. Mario.

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Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
tifreak8x  Account Info
(Web Page)

Wish I had a 89ti to test them out. I think I will keep my old 89 for the time being...

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 03:15 GMT

Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Michael Vincent  Account Info
(Web Page)

These updates add 89 Titanium support, not remove original 89 compatibility. They should work. I have a 89 with no batteries, so don't listen to me, however.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 03:21 GMT


Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Lionel Debroux Account Info
(Web Page)

Michael, could you please add a reminder saying that some TICT programs were updated (once more) as well a while ago ? The previous news about TI-TiltMaze 1.21 didn't mention them. TICT-Explorer, TI-Chess and FAT-Engine are not updated yet though.
Thanks in advance.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 10:07 GMT

Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Awesome! Now nobody will need to worry (as much) about certain programs not working. Also, that means we don't need a TI-89Ti-specific downloads section and people shouldn't have to make TI-89Ti-specific games, either. Right?

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 15:30 GMT


Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

Some people will still try to put USB drivers on their 92+.

There are still quite a lot of problems with complex ASM programs, especially TSRs. I think there should be a defined 89Ti archive because the hardware is so different from anything else. Just the Left/Up switch on 89/92+ and the memory difference should be enough. There's one for 84+, and comparing 89Ti/89 and 84+SE/83+ leads one to conclude that logically there should be another archive. I know the rationale: no new BASIC functions. However, you could say almost the same thing about 82 vs. 83 and the hardware and ASM (tiams.h, USB, new memory map, etc.) are radically different.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 16:06 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
no_one_2000_  Account Info
(Web Page)

Ahh, they switched the up and left keys? That's stupid. Why would they do that? That doesn't make any sense at all. Are they trying to make compatibility issues, or did they just feel that they didn't change enough in the new TI-89T, and out of boredom, decided to change the keys around for kicks?

That would screw up a lot of programs... (a lot use _rowread(), I believe) It wouldn't be hard to fix the key compaitibility in a program (just a few if statements), but for everything else...

But there's no TI-83+SE section. It has a few differences. However, it's nothing quite as major... I guess, when you put it that way, it makes sense to have a separate archive. I can just imagine the confusion caused for people new to TI graphing calculators, as they run into these compatibility issues in their programs. That just means more hate mail for the authors, so... yeah, I agree with you now. Good points.

Reply to this comment    23 August 2004, 15:36 GMT


Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
clod1977 Account Info
(Web Page)

I actually own both ti's the 89 and the 89Ti. Believe it or not the 89Ti is slower than its predecessor. Actually besides the 3x memory the 89 supersedes the 89Ti in just about any other aspect. Listen to me, if you do end up buying the 89Ti, test it against the 89 before you throw your 89 in a corner of your room.

Reply to this comment    13 September 2004, 03:21 GMT

Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Lewk Of Serthic Account Info
(Web Page)

The compatibility issues arn't really as bad as people make it seem...

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 03:16 GMT

Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
dietsche Account Info
(Web Page)

lol, yes, it isn't bad if you consider not working at all acceptable. All of my programs that I have updated simply crashed on the titanium before i took the time to fix them.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 03:56 GMT


Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Jeremiah Walgren  Account Info
(Web Page)

Oh, crashing the calculator is all they do? I thought they would cause the batteries to melt or explode or something similar.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 04:09 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
dietsche Account Info
(Web Page)

lol, i sure hope that's not possible!

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 04:15 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
darkhydra21 Account Info

That would be weird if TI had something like that built in on purpose...

:if (calculator = "89titanium") then
:blowupbatteries()

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 17:16 GMT

Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Christophe Molon-Noblot  Account Info
(Web Page)

For example, all programs made in C with tigcc and using grayscales shouldn't work if they are not ported or patched.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 09:36 GMT


Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Lionel Debroux Account Info
(Web Page)

The language and the environment they use doesn't matter. It's even a bit worse in ASM, since most old kernel-based programs, which have been requiring HW2Patch for five years, and use awful hacks (absolute addresses to read/write system variables !!), are written in pure ASM. They are usually closed-source, and most authors left the community years ago, so modifying them is a hassle.

Grayscale doesn't work because unpatched interrupt redirection doesn't work on the Titanic.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 10:17 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Christophe Molon-Noblot  Account Info
(Web Page)

I gave that example because most programs are writen with tigcc nowaday, and tigcc 0.94 is still one of the most downloaded file of ticalc.org. Of course there's been problems with other programs in the past, but that's not the point. And fot the old kernel-based one, I think you'll just have to wait for the next PreOs.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 10:22 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Lionel Debroux Account Info
(Web Page)

> I gave that example because most programs are writen with tigcc nowaday, and tigcc 0.94 is still one of the most downloaded file of ticalc.org.
I understood this, but your comment was incomplete. My point is that most programs written in ASM are incompatible with the Titanic as well.
> Of course there's been problems with other programs in the past, but that's not the point.
Of course it is, since they need patches.
> And for the old kernel-based one, I think you'll just have to wait for the next PreOs.
PreOS is much better than previous kernels, but it remains a huge piece of software taking some RAM and archive, most programmers and users do without it and will continue doing so.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 11:54 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Christophe Molon-Noblot  Account Info
(Web Page)

But the kernel can apply all the patches for making an old program to work on a titanium, so it may be very usefull in an user's point of view ^^

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 12:14 GMT


Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Lionel Debroux Account Info
(Web Page)

> But the kernel can apply all the patches for making an old program to work on a titanium, so it may be very useful in an user's point of view ^^
"All" the patches ?? Patching a program to run correctly on Titaniums is very hard, since AMS 3.00 is another hack breaker. Many kernel-based programs didn't even support AMS 2.xx, only a part of those was rewritten...
In other words, I doubt that the kernel will be able to patch all kinds of crappy hacks... I'd not go as far as saying your post contains a lie though (although it's far from unusual in your posts on the TIGCC/TICT boards).

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 14:16 GMT

Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Christophe Molon-Noblot  Account Info
(Web Page)

It's always a pleasure to speak with you, Lionel =)

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 18:20 GMT


Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
PpHd  Account Info
(Web Page)

it works very well if the kernel programs support AMS 2.0x.I haven't found any Kernel programs which don't work on Titanium with Preos 0.70.

Reply to this comment    26 August 2004, 07:41 GMT


Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

They also work fine with GhostBuster and Iceberg. :-)

Reply to this comment    26 August 2004, 20:50 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

>>Grayscale doesn't work because unpatched interrupt redirection doesn't work on the Titanic.

Is that also why I can't get even patched TSRs (at least ones that do something-not like the sample one in the archives that prevents people from typing a lowercase A on April 1) to run?

It also says 'Error: Invalid Polar Complex.'

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 11:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Lionel Debroux Account Info
(Web Page)

> Is that also why I can't get even patched TSRs (at least ones that do something-not like the sample one in the archives that prevents people from typing a lowercase A on April 1) to run?
Did you install HW3Patch ?

> It also says 'Error: Invalid Polar Complex.'
Yes, most programmers were reported this error. Accessing the nonexistent ghost space seems to have wierd effects.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 11:55 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

I installed HW3Patch. That's why I said the TSRs were patched.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 12:31 GMT


Re: TI-89 Titanium Compatibility Improves
Lionel Debroux Account Info
(Web Page)

HW3Patch is not enough, you have to run GhostBuster on programs. Read thread 'FAQ: Running C/ASM programs on the TI-89 Titanium' at http://p080.ezboard.com/ ftichessteamhqfrm13
(sorry, cannot post correct and complete link due to word size limit)

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 14:08 GMT


Agreed
ti_is_good_++  Account Info

All of my programs in the archives work on the Titanium unless otherwise stated.

Reply to this comment    22 August 2004, 09:42 GMT

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